Barebow damper

Michael Burrows

Member
AIUK Saviour
Just wondering if any BB archers are considering putting a damper on their bow now that the WA rule allows it (as long as not a stabiliser and fits in the 122 ring) and if so what you have got/considering
 

LAC Mark

Active member
I've not put a damper on, but have put a weight in the top bushing.
This has made my bow more balanced in the hand, I can't say if it's helped with scores or not though.
 

Toxy2021

New member
Personally i would rather have the mass than the damping, I'm not aware of many dampers that are compact enough to allow sufficient weight to make it worthwhile to me, I could possibly bodge something but as I say I'm not sure it's worth it
 

Michael Burrows

Member
AIUK Saviour
I wasn't thinking extra weight. I'm happy with my weight distribution but I'd like to learn what the effect would be adding a damper (with no weight) to one of the riser mounts.
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
You really need some amount of mass because "physics".
Without going too far into the details (look at 'mass-spring system' or 'tuned mass damper') mass at the end of the spring (damper) is required to get the best effects IMO.

The ratio of mass to springiness is what allows you to target different frequencies of vibration.
So to truly make it effective on your bow you need to experiment and adjust the weight/damper to get the best effect.
This can be checked by squeezing the string and limb at the tip and seeing how fast the vibrations die away - you'll know when you've got it right!

You also want to have the damper flexing a decent amount to do the best job of removing the vibrations/excess energy.
This tends to happen better when there is a bit of mass (inertia) on the end of the damper.
If there isn't any mass then the damper will essentially just move with the riser, not really damping out its vibrations.

This being the real world a damper has some mass (and some damping, funnily enough) as well as being a spring, so would work to a degree.
The best effects come with some mass however.

Therefore to get the best effect I'd suggest having a play around with different dampers and masses.
We're not talking lots given you are happy with your current setup - I'd say ounces (or lower if you have some large washers).
 

Michael Burrows

Member
AIUK Saviour
Thank you that's very interesting and makes a lot of sense - but I wonder if that would contravene the no stabiliser rule? Limb saver dampers stuck to the limbs have some damping effect, noise reduction anyway, and I suppose the Matthews system on things like the Axcel sight bars work (?) without mass but I may have misunderstood
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
So, limbsavers usually have a thin neck and a large lump.
Although the whole thing is made of rubber, in this case the neck is acting as the spring/damper, and the lump as the mass.

Peewees/doinker sight dampers actually do have a little mass on the end of the damper (my EZE does, at least).

As for the rules, I am not a competitive barebow, so can't comment I'm afraid.
Whenever I am unsure on things like this I always try and ask a judge of their opinion.
If you don't know any yourself there are probably some on here somewhere, or people like Geophys or KidCurry may have a better idea about legality.
 

Steve Ruis

Supporter
Supporter
Just wondering if any BB archers are considering putting a damper on their bow now that the WA rule allows it (as long as not a stabilizer and fits in the 122 ring) and if so what you have got/considering
Originally Doinkers were "stick-on" thingies that were applied to the inside of limbs. I don't know if these are still available. They would certainly pass inspection as they did not stick out from the limb very far and should slip through the ring with ease. The question as to their being desirable is still pertinent. If you shoot with a sling and end up not gripping your bow during followthrough (a good idea) then the residual vibration of the bow entering your body is minimal in the first place. The reduced vibration in the bow reduces its "voice" and makes it harder to here when it changes. (Olympic Recurve archers are told to remove all vibration dampening from their bows when tuning as it reduces the ability to hear changes in the bows efficiency (efficient bows are quieter).)
 

Toxy2021

New member
I wasn't thinking extra weight. I'm happy with my weight distribution but I'd like to learn what the effect would be adding a damper (with no weight) to one of the riser mounts.
As long as you are experimenting, you can do whatever you like, potentially if you can get hold of one a TFC would allow you to tune the effect to your hearts content, but you will struggle to keep it 12 cm compact, almost any damper requires mass in order to provide a damping effect, even its just the mass of the rubber, rubber strap on, wrap around dampers are still about and could be used on the riser or attached to the weights
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Just wondering if any BB archers are considering putting a damper on their bow now that the WA rule allows it (as long as not a stabiliser and fits in the 122 ring) and if so what you have got/considering
Do you mean something like this? Just fits through a 12.2cm hoop but I'm waiting on the shorter rubber. Just trying it out. No conclusions yet. I'm looking at one on top, one on bottom and a chuffing great weight in the stab bushing :)
IMG_20220118_140340998.jpg
 

Michael Burrows

Member
AIUK Saviour
Tried out a Infitec damper in various positions on the bow. My conclusions are that it definitely made the bow quieter but I didn't really notice any difference in vibration on my Gillo GT27 which doesn't really vibrate much anyway. So I thought I'd try and be a bit scientific and check it out through the MantisX Archery app. The pictures below show on average what happened over a few shots. Excuse the odd writing. Anyway the most difference is in the red line which shows the movement of the bow after release which suggests that the bow stays on target a bit better. The stability score is taken at anchor and over a few shots was pretty much the same as one would expect. The white X is when the arrow is released and the red X when it leaves the bow. So I think I'll keep it on the bow. Hope you find this interesting, a bit geeky I know :rolleyes:
 

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KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Now shooting 200g damper on top bush, 200g damper on bottom bush and a 700g weight in the stabiliser bush. So a bit lighter than I normally shoot but it feels really good. Even crawling for my 20yds it just feels and sounds like a recurve stabiliser setup. I will try it on my AXT to see what that's like as it is normally a very loud bow, primarily due to the ultra light W&W NS foam limbs.
 

Hawkmoon

Member
The real question is not are you going to try dampeners but why would you, WA have already acknowledged that they will not effect you bows performance by giving some waffle about protecting the archer from excessive shock or vibration. But if you actually look at the mechanics the only time there is any shock or vibration that a dampener could have any effect on, is when the string reaches the brace height and impacts on the limbs, which is also when the bow leaves the hand (unless you are gripping your bow.....don't grip your bow). So we come back to why.....?
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
But if you actually look at the mechanics the only time there is any shock or vibration that a dampener could have any effect on, is when the string reaches the brace height and impacts on the limbs, which is also when the bow leaves the hand (unless you are gripping your bow.....don't grip your bow). So we come back to why.....?
This is about noise not hand shock. If a recurve bow setup is shot with poor tiller you get a noisy bow as the limbs react with different timings and you get vibration. You can take this out by correctly setting the tiller and nock height. You can do this to some extent with a barebow but it's generally not as successful and you can't keep adjusting the tiller for every distance as you crawl down the string. My cheap Raven riser is quite quiet. My Elite riser is rather noisy but my W&W AXT riser is very noisy. I think it is a reaction to the riser stiffness.
The noise comes from the string being partially dry fired. ie the lower limb dragging the string without an arrow load for the first couple of inches. see picture below distance 'd'. I haven't tested my AXT riser yet but the Elite is much quieter at all crawls with the dampeners on and is now a joy to shoot.
ddd.jpg
The distance 'd' is taken up by the lower limb without an effective arrow load.
PS... I should reference Martin L. Godio "The Art of String Walking" 2019, where I first read about the dry fire.
 
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