Beiter out nocks and high nocking point

Rog600

New member
I have some 410 x10 shafts showing a little weak and some 380 x10 shafts that are a bit short so I've tried some beiter out nocks for a little extra length but when bareshafting, before I even get to weak/stiff, left/right issues, I end up with a nocking point a few mm higher than with hunters or pin nocks. Is this something other archers have found? Should I worry about it or just set it up where they're in with the fletched and carry on? Is it something that could be showing up a problem with my release, maybe not enough weight on my first finger? (in which case, something good might have come from trying them)?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.
 


Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Firstly, assuming you are tuning at 30m, (not 15 or 20m) and have replaced the mass of the fletchings with a little masking tape or similar, set them up as the bare shaft is asking, then head out to 70m and see what the groups and sightmarks are like. If they're acceptable, tweak to perfection and don't overthink it.
If they don't group well, time for a rethink.
 


JamesP

New member
I agree. There's a lot of things that can cause a nock to stick up/down a bit when it hits the target, the issues only come when it flies at that angle. Walk back to a further distance and see if the fletched and bareshaft arrows group vertically (don't worry about left-right to begin with). It might be that there's no problem and your bareshafts just land at a funny angle, or that they don't group - which is when you have to move your nocking points.

Out nocks are considerably lighter than pins - which affects the balance of the arrow, so don't be surprised if you have to move your nocking points up or down your string to get the arrows to fly straight. Once your arrows all group vertically at a few distances you're comfortable shooting, then you can look at the left-right grouping with some pressure button tuning.

I like the idea of using masking tape to compensate for the weight difference between fletched and bareshaft, although I don't know if it'd make a great deal of difference for an initial tune. I'll have to try it when I get my next set of arrows to see what effect it has.
 


Rik

Supporter
Supporter
It's worth remembering that nocking point is a little bit notional too, for bareshaft. Testing it at different distances will give different results. That's to do with the effects of drag over distance (basically bare shafts hit relatively higher at longer ranges).
So get it thereabouts, and if the results aren't ugly, it's probably good enough.
(when you see suggestions in guides to set the NP with bare shafts low, or high, at a particular distance, this is basically reflecting the writer's preference for a certain distance at which the bare and fletched shafts should group vertically).
 


Rog600

New member
Thanks all for input so far. Yes, TT, tuning at 30m.

I think what I maybe didn't convey in my earlier post is the difference in final NP height between the same shafts (albeit one spine different and a tad shorter) but with different nocks. So I've tested this just to make sure I'm not imagining things by changing the nocks on the 410s for the over nocks and I end up with a higher NP again. This is Beiter hunter nocks Vs Beiter over nocks.

So my question isn't so much about relative positions of bareshafts to fletched shafts, more the relative positions of the same shaft with different nocks. Boiled down, let's say I've shot six identical bareshafts, three with hunter nocks and three with over nocks at 30m. Obvs the total arrow length with the overnock is slightly greater (original reason for trying them is to get a longer overall arrow).

I seem to end up with a high NP anyway and I realise tiller, bow hand position and finger pressure all have a part to play. The over nocks just seem to make it higher.

If that's how it ends up, that's okay but I wonder if the slightly longer nock (and therefore slightly greater overall length) could be that significant?

It's all relative to my hand position, my bow's tiller and my finger position but for reference, with the hunters, my NP measured from the arrowrest, is around 12mm to the bottom of the top nocking point and with the over nocks it is heading towards 16mm with my usual bareshafts and fletched together in gold on a frostbite. Also longish (32.5") draw.

I'm not losing sleep over this, I just wondered if it was something anyone else had noticed or whether it might be form/technique related. If "they all do that, sir", then I'll set the higher nocking point and crack on. If the over nocks are somehow unforgiving and showing up a technique issue, I can work towards improving matters.

Thanks again for the input and sorry if I wasn't overly clear earlier.
 


Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
The space that fits on the string is different with hunter and overnocks. Hunters are symmetrical, overnocks are asymmetric. If you are shooting them both off a string with no Beiter nocking point installed specific to each (sorry if I've missed that bit) then that is probably what you are seeing.
 


Rog600

New member
A ha! Yes, TT, thanks!!

And very testable; I can shoot them wrong way up by comparison.

Thanks again.
 


Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Hah, yes! It's not quite as much difference as putting the normal Beiter nocks on upside down (when they were new on the market, I knew someone who mixed them some one way some the other - he was quite puzzled for a while as to why his arrows were going some low, some high...).
 


Top