Blade rest - stiffer or weaker

ArcheryFox

Active member
Hi All,

Now that I have been allowed out to play again I have been shooting my nice new arrows at distance.
However, I have started to notice that I am getting markings towards the nock end of the shaft - see photo though it's hard to get a good image.
I am fairly certain that these are coming from contact with the blade rest, as they appear as a pair of lines on the underside.
Currently blade angle is 'normal' and I have the 'correct' blade stiffness based on manufacturer weight recommendations.
I get a nice paper tune close up, and the arrows seem to be behaving at 70m.

My question is do I want a stiffer or weaker blade rest to fix this?
One person I asked said it implies that the rest is too springy, springing down and then back to kick the back of the arrow, and I should try a stiffer blade.
However, others, including Nuts&Bolts over on AT say the opposite, that there is not enough 'suspension' as the arrow flexes leading to scratches as it failed to bend and that I should try a weaker blade.

So I am wondering if there is anyone here that has an opinion (😂) and can offer some advice.

Thanks in advance!

Data:
Freakshow rest set at 38 degrees, 0.010 Freak Blade
X10 Protour, 420 spine, 390 grn total, 120grn points

IMG_20200825_094234.jpg
IMG_20200825_101430.jpg
 
Last edited:

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Blade is fine. It looks too close to the wrap to be a draw issue. I would paper tune at 3, 5 and 10m to see if the arrow nock is dropping at launch. I would look to paper tune for a 5mm nock high tear which will give your arrows room over the rest at launch. Also watch the cam timing as this can set up more arrow flex than desirable if it is out.
Also, as you mention 'at distance', it might be worth checking your form geometry is still good.
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
Brilliant, thanks!

I would paper tune at 3, 5 and 10m to see if the arrow nock is dropping at launch.
Without wanting to appear stupid this would appear as a nock low tear as I increase the distance?

I would look to paper tune for a 5mm nock high tear which will give your arrows room over the rest at launch.
Brilliant, thanks.
So I probably want to drop the rest a bit?
As they say, the paper tune isn't everything, all it means is you can shoot a nice hole in some close paper!!

Also watch the cam timing as this can set up more arrow flex than desirable if it is out.
Mmmm. I've haven't paid too much attention to this as it is a hybrid system. I tuned the draw length and ATA and checked that the cables were 'close enough' to the timing marks since PSE state they are there as 'guidelines' not exact measures. Perhaps some closer attention is required in the near future.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Without wanting to appear stupid this would appear as a nock low tear as I increase the distance?
You may see a nock low tear. With paper tune at a single distance you may pass through the paper during the arrow recovery when it is almost flat. Over different distances you get a better idea of how the arrow is reacting.
I used to set my rest position/nock height to be as flat as possible but if I went too flat I found the metal blade used to mark the front part of my nice shinny white wraps and also the underside of the vanes. 5mm high tear was all that was needed to eliminate this contact. I did try the red fibre blades for a while. Some people report excessive wear on them for the same reason you are experiencing on your arrows shaft. Lack of clearance. One blade lasted me over two seasons. Eventually they will wear as you can't avoid contact during the draw cycle.

So I probably want to drop the rest a bit?
Very tiny bit at a time. We can be talking 0.5mm max.

I've haven't paid too much attention to this as it is a hybrid system. I tuned the draw length and ATA and checked that the cables were 'close enough' to the timing marks since PSE state they are there as 'guidelines' not exact measures. Perhaps some closer attention is required in the near future.
It will need to be some way out. I spent 6 months shooting at the nationals with one cam set to 29" and the other set to 29.5". Made bugger all difference shooting sub 10 H/C. They still came out straight :)
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
As they say, the paper tune isn't everything, all it means is you can shoot a nice hole in some close paper!!
I would say that paper tuning might lead to the archer shooting a bullet hole in paper and not much more.
But paper tuning can be far more useful than that. Or, perhaps I should say... shooting through paper can be .....
If you have an erratic release; it will show. If your bow hand position varies, it will show. Both of these inconsistencies can then be worked on to find a better way.
 

Nick72

New member
Your arrow weight seems correct for a 0.01 blade.

I've heard 27 to 31 degrees suggested, so you might get less abrasion with a lower blade angle.
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
You may see a nock low tear. With paper tune at a single distance you may pass through the paper during the arrow recovery when it is almost flat. Over different distances you get a better idea of how the arrow is reacting.

Very tiny bit at a time. We can be talking 0.5mm max.
Brilliant, I'll give that a go next time I have a chance.
Bit busy and very windy at the moment!

It will need to be some way out. I spent 6 months shooting at the nationals with one cam set to 29" and the other set to 29.5". Made bugger all difference shooting sub 10 H/C. They still came out straight :)
😂
Yeah, as I say, wasn't my biggest concern up until this point, and certainly wasn't holding me back last summer!

I would say that paper tuning might lead to the archer shooting a bullet hole in paper and not much more.
But paper tuning can be far more useful than that. Or, perhaps I should say... shooting through paper can be .....
Sure, but in the context here I have very nice paper tuning results, but very not nice marks on my arrows, so need to go beyond 'oh, bullet hole, it must be perfect' :p
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi ArcheryFox.
Yes I do understand the context; it just seemed for the post I responded to that there seemed to be no value ever.
What happens to the tear if you move further away. or a bit closer even?
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
Gotcha. I was a bit short, but what I meant was that, as someone with reasonable technique, I shot through paper for an initial tune and got a nice result, but in reality it seems that the best setup may give an imperfect result. I think you make a very valid point that 'shooting through paper' (I like that phrase) can be useful as an indicator for many things when you don't get a bullet hole, however, or are looking to diagnose rather than tune.
When writing I was thinking more in terms of people tuning who see a bullet hole and think this means the bow will now shoot perfectly forever, whereas what KC is suggesting is that perhaps a little nock high might be yield the best real-world setup.
If I think back to my recurve days this is perhaps analogous to how you initially bareshaft tune to get a group, but after further tuning many archers find that their best shooting setup actually gives bare shafts that are a little outside the fletched group.

As for the results, I'm not sure yet. I did do 2m and 5m when I set it up which seemed OK, but I will try running back to 10m (or however long my garden is) soon.
I have a *virtual* team competition this week/weekend, so won't fiddle until that's done though, and it's also very busy (in life) and windy at the moment.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Archery Fox, I think we are both on the same page, heehhee
I tend to see a bigger picture when posts are posted because ,often there are others reading who might be in a similar situation, though not exactly the same.
A similar situation arose with bare shaft tuning. Once, it was the bees knees, then it was looked upon as just a start and that walkback was the way to go.
That, in some cases lead to archers doing walkback without having checked the simpler settings first.
A similar thing happened with button settings.Hey ho!
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Blade is fine. It looks too close to the wrap to be a draw issue. I would paper tune at 3, 5 and 10m to see if the arrow nock is dropping at launch. I would look to paper tune for a 5mm nock high tear which will give your arrows room over the rest at launch. Also watch the cam timing as this can set up more arrow flex than desirable if it is out.
Also, as you mention 'at distance', it might be worth checking your form geometry is still good.
tune fore a 5mm tail high tear.
 
Top