Compound release aid rule change

jerryRTD

Well-known member
And that's why JerryRTD's rule of "the arrow going out side the overshoot" is not simple or practical. The idea of the arrow never being aimed at a higher angle than that needed to hit the target is easy to see by watching the draw.
It is not my rule, it is rule 102(b) of the rules of shooting published by Archery GB..further I can see that some people might object to a rule that requires them to draw and aim at the same time This rule has worked well for a lot of years I remember being taught a 'safe draw in 1972 when I first started shooting.

Bimble, are you saying that the legality of the shot is dependent on how much over shoot is available at the range/venue in question? So if they had an overshoot of 600yds as opposed to the bare minimum of 150y.... then it would be legal.
Yes Geoff the way rule 102 (b) is written that is correct .There is no mention of distances in 102 (b) read it your self.
 


bimble

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Bimble, are you saying that the legality of the shot is dependent on how much over shoot is available at the range/venue in question? So if they had an overshoot of 600yds as opposed to the bare minimum of 150y.... then it would be legal.
yes, this even came up at a National Tour shoot last year where one of the venues was tighter on the overshoot than others and one archer was told to modify their draw because it was deemed too risky, and the coach complained that it had been deemed acceptable by other judges at other shoots.

You go to a flight shoot and you will see compounds shooting at a 45 degree angle, because there is adequate overshoot to allow people to try to max out a bow's distance. But if you go to a clout, non-longbow bowstyles aren't allowed a high shot profile, and overshoots are less.

This is why it is better to have a draw that is legal for the minimum overshoot, because if you're used to there being more available you may become unstuck at a different venue. I think one of the Korean compounders in 2015 had it suggested that his draw might be frowned upon, and so come the next event had changed it.

I remember photographing on one finals field and one archer had such a left-to-right sweep on their draw it actually passed over me, even though I was off to the side in what was supposed to be a safe spot, as he drew his bow. Because archers can send arrows out of the safety area in more than just one direction.
 


Kernowlad

Active member
I would think that is enough distance for the overshoot. I wonder if the archery police are concerned about how visible that part of the "garden" is regarding spotting anyone in there wandering about.
Some will pick holes in anything. It’s a clear view over a private field. The painfully pious just can’t help themselves,
 


English Bowman

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It is not my rule, it is rule 102(b) of the rules of shooting published by Archery GB..further I can see that some people might object to a rule that requires them to draw and aim at the same time This rule has worked well for a lot of years I remember being taught a 'safe draw in 1972 when I first started shooting.
I'll accept your point about it not being your rule, I should have said the rule that you were quoting as working well. However, I stand by my comments that it's impossible to police, and potentially dangerous with modern bows, whereas the AGB field rule is easier to police, easy to understand, and if you can't draw the bow without aiming higher than you need in order to hit the target in my opinion you have no place on a range. You don't have to be on aim through the entire shot, just not aiming high, so if you want to take your bow hand above your head, no problem, just take the string hand to the same height and keep the arrow roughly horizontal, then come up to the aim point when you get to or near to full draw.

Maybe the AGB field rule should be adopted for target and just have one rule for both.
 


bimble

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Maybe the AGB field rule should be adopted for target and just have one rule for both.
Amusingly, looking through the AGB rule book, the "field" rule isn't an official rule... (at least in the Feb 2020 version on the website)
 


KidCurry

Well-known member
...but if you go to a clout, non-longbow bowstyles aren't allowed a high shot profile, and overshoots are less.
For compounds that might have something to do with an elevation of 84 degrees, a maximum arrow height of 422m and a flight time of 18 seconds from a 300fps bow:ROFLMAO:
 


jerryRTD

Well-known member
I'll accept your point about it not being your rule, I should have said the rule that you were quoting as working well. However, I stand by my comments that it's impossible to police, and potentially dangerous with modern bows, whereas the AGB field rule is easier to police, easy to understand, and if you can't draw the bow without aiming higher than you need in order to hit the target in my opinion you have no place on a range. You don't have to be on aim through the entire shot, just not aiming high, so if you want to take your bow hand above your head, no problem, just take the string hand to the same height and keep the arrow roughly horizontal, then come up to the aim point when you get to or near to full draw.

Maybe the AGB field rule should be adopted for target and just have one rule for both.
You need to specify accurately the actions required to satisfy the rule if you are going to improve on the rule that is already in place. Phrases like 'you don't have to be on the aim through the entire shot' and 'roughly' will not do.
It would be better to say that 'the draw should started with the sight on the boss and finished with the sight on the boss.' A judge should be able to stand behind the archer and see where the pin is.. The judge should be allowed some latitude as an inch will take the point of aim off the boss at 100yds
 


geoffretired

Supporter
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Jerry that doesn't work, Start and finish on the boss does not state where the sight is during the bit in between.
Remain on the boss from start to finish?
 


LAC Mark

Member
Jerry that doesn't work, Start and finish on the boss does not state where the sight is during the bit in between.
Remain on the boss from start to finish?
"You must remain sighted on the boss from start to finish" is better, as this also covers BB and longbow.
 


bimble

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"You must remain sighted on the boss from start to finish" is better, as this also covers BB and longbow.
Of course, that phrasing makes a whole bunch of current safe and legal draws, illegal. For instance, if both hands start high, and come down together, the draw is safe, but the archer obviously cannot be "sighted on the boss from the start"... It is also perfectly possible to have the target visible in the sight throughout the draw, but a low string hand that comes up to the chin (Jean Charles Valladont comes to mind) would mean the arrow could still miss the target...

It's almost like they gave the wording of the original rule some thought...
 


jerryRTD

Well-known member
Jerry that doesn't work, Start and finish on the boss does not state where the sight is during the bit in between.
Remain on the boss from start to finish?
Bearing in mind how much deflection is needed to move the pin off the boss at 100yds I do not think that the majority of archers could draw accurately enough to keep the pin on the boss throughout the draw when shooting at 100 yds. I think some of you may have forgotten just how small that boss is at 100 yds.
So you give them some thing easier to do and trust the biometrics . by the time they are 1/4 to 1/2 the way through their draw things are pretty well lined up
Remember this has to work at all ranges..
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Bearing in mind how much deflection is needed to move the pin off the boss at 100yds I do not think that the majority of archers could draw accurately enough to keep the pin on the boss throughout the draw when shooting at 100 yds
I think I could tell if an archer was attempting to stay on the boss all through the draw. Even if they seemed, to the archer, to be well off it part way through.
I still think the two hands should be about level with each other. That keeps the arrow more or less horizontal.
 


jerryRTD

Well-known member
Good luck with writing a clear accurate rule with the words 'That keeps the arrow more or less horizontal' in.
 


English Bowman

Well-known member
How do you stay 'sighted' when you do not have a sight???????????
Barebow, longbow etc. In AGB field we refer to sighted classes, Recurve and Compound and the unsighted classes, barebow, traditional AFB and Longbow. (Some clubs also allow the WA classification of Instinctive) Obviously a judge can't check on a longbow or barebow archers sight.

As for wording of the rule, how about "at no point during the draw should the arrow be at an angle required to hit the target"? I reckon that would cover it, and you can watch an archer from the side to see the change of the angle of the arrow during the draw. If both hands are raised above the shoulders by the same amount, no problem, but if the bow hand is raised above the string hand then that is a problem.
 


bimble

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As for wording of the rule, how about "at no point during the draw should the arrow be at an angle required to hit the target"? I reckon that would cover it, and you can watch an archer from the side to see the change of the angle of the arrow during the draw. If both hands are raised above the shoulders by the same amount, no problem, but if the bow hand is raised above the string hand then that is a problem.
Sooo.... as long as the arrow wouldn't hit the target it's acceptable?? Because I can draw all kinda ways and NOT hit the target... sometimes I even manage that whilst trying to hit the damned thing...

There is probably a reason why the rule is phrased as it is.

When drawing back the string of the bow an archer shall not use any technique which, in the opinion of the judges, could, if accidentally loosed, allow the arrow to fly beyond a safety zone or safety arrangements (overshoot area, net, wall, etc)
Remember, safety zone is not only over the top of a target, but also to the side. The current rule literally covers all directions and all types of archery in a single sentence.
 


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