"Confused Investors"

bimble

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Ironman
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I think it demonstrates the level of intelligence of some of the people who are going to lose big...
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
I see it as two fingers up to the World’s biggest parasites.
Their hilariously pathetic “warnings” to private investors are cringe worthy.
The stock market is so far removed from reality and so corrosive to society that a revolution is needed.
 

bimble

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tell that to the people who bought the stock for more than what it will end up once the bubble bursts.... the only ones who'll win are those that bought early, then set the bubble off, then sold at a massive profit...
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
tell that to the people who bought the stock for more than what it will end up once the bubble bursts.... the only ones who'll win are those that bought early, then set the bubble off, then sold at a massive profit...
I think the main thing is to stop the vile hedge fund parasites in their grubby little tracks. They make money out of misery and clearly get grumpy when normal people give them a bloody nose.
Countless stupid decisions are made to please “the market” yet it is nothing but a self serving ole boys club.
For the ones who bought early, good on them.
 

4d4m

Active member
It's strange how the big players are so focused on the rules when they're feeling the pinch. When they're the ones profiting, not so much.
They'll be bleating to be bailed out again.

Heaven forfend that the little kids get to play in the big boys' sandpit.
 

4d4m

Active member
tell that to the people who bought the stock for more than what it will end up once the bubble bursts.... the only ones who'll win are those that bought early, then set the bubble off, then sold at a massive profit...
There seem to be people who have intentionally written off some of their money to send a message that shorting a company into oblivion to make a profit is a pretty grubby thing to do.
 

tabashir

Supporter
Supporter
I often wonder what a society with no stock market would be like, since generally speaking it seems to me that in the age of neo-capitalism its primary function is to make more money for those that already have it. Quite a difference from when originally it was more about allowing small companies raise money to invest where now it seems that having to answer to investors and shareholders actually stifles rather than promotes growth.
However, on the other hand, hedge funds and the like are now the main way that pensions become viable. For those that no longer can look forward to a state pension providing what we will need, despite having paid in for many years, it is going to be a big blow if our private/workplace pensions that we've also paid in for many years, also don't pay out.
I have no clue what the answer is!
 

Big George

Supporter
Supporter
I often wonder what a society with no stock market would be like, since generally speaking it seems to me that in the age of neo-capitalism its primary function is to make more money for those that already have it. Quite a difference from when originally it was more about allowing small companies raise money to invest where now it seems that having to answer to investors and shareholders actually stifles rather than promotes growth.
However, on the other hand, hedge funds and the like are now the main way that pensions become viable. For those that no longer can look forward to a state pension providing what we will need, despite having paid in for many years, it is going to be a big blow if our private/workplace pensions that we've also paid in for many years, also don't pay out.
I have no clue what the answer is!
Short termism rules the stock market. I’ve always thought you should be required to own any stock you are selling, none of this borrowing to sell to drive the price down which also confuses me, why would someone holding stock “lend” it so someone else can drive the stock down in the hope that it will rise back to its current level. its more likely the original investment will be worth less after the shenanigans are finished.

As for dealers..... back in the early 80’s I was involved in developing and installing dealer boards, I would not trust dealers as far as I could throw them, I heard too much on how they operate to really put any trust in the stock market.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
I often wonder what a society with no stock market would be like, since generally speaking it seems to me that in the age of neo-capitalism its primary function is to make more money for those that already have it. Quite a difference from when originally it was more about allowing small companies raise money to invest where now it seems that having to answer to investors and shareholders actually stifles rather than promotes growth.
However, on the other hand, hedge funds and the like are now the main way that pensions become viable. For those that no longer can look forward to a state pension providing what we will need, despite having paid in for many years, it is going to be a big blow if our private/workplace pensions that we've also paid in for many years, also don't pay out.
I have no clue what the answer is!
Er, a society without one, will most likely develop one... after all they arose out of people meeting to do business in places like coffee houses. They only became institutions, because govt realised they had to be regulated to stop bad things happening (with more or less success).
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
The current stock market is an example of what happens when capitalism goes too far.
The combination of Trump being binned and this makes me feel more optimistic than I have felt in ages.
We have regularly turned down clients we feel aren’t ethical, the investments we have made are only in emerging renewable energy. It’s easy to drop all morals and make big money from being vile (property development is a prime example) but it’s not big or clever and anyone who makes money from exploitation is a failure not a success.
 
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tabashir

Supporter
Supporter
Er, a society without one, will most likely develop one... after all they arose out of people meeting to do business in places like coffee houses. They only became institutions, because govt realised they had to be regulated to stop bad things happening (with more or less success).
Indeed it will. My point was more about it no longer resembling in function what it originally was formulated to achieve. Much the same as capitalism itself in that originally it fostered competition (and invention) where now, any sniff of competition gets bought by the big fish, then either shut down or assimilated to amass more for the benefit of same.
Think this may have drifted from archery somewhat!
 

albatross

Supporter
Supporter
This what always happens 'When money is your God'. How many property developers promise to include so many 'affordable houses' in their planning applications. When they are granted it and are building underway, they suddenly turn around and say "we cannot afford to build these 'affordable houses' now". I would shut their site down at that point if I had the power to do so!
 

little-else

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AIUK Saviour
The real losers with the Robinhood group popping the hedge fund bubble are us.
Why? our pension funds and banks lend the speculators both the money and the shares so they can make a profit at our expense so if the hedge funds lose a fortune they wont repay the banks or pension funds and we ordinary people who have to keep our money in a regulated way carry the can.
Many years ago a man by the name of Nelson Bunker Hunt tried to corner the silver market by buying all of the silver futures on the LME. It forced the price of silver up from £3 an ounce to over £30 an oz but then 2 things happened. the Omanis, who were heavily into metal futures saw they were about to lose a couple of billion dollars called i the IOU;s and demanded the actual metal rather than just an IOU to be traded on and the whole world went through its jewellery box to find things to scrap ( I used to work in silver as a hobby and sold the scrap iIhad left over from making a box for more than the box cost me in the first place) so supply again ouitstripped demand adn he was left holding notes for around 10 million oz of silver and no metal. He wa famously quoted as saying " a billion dollars aint what it used to be".

Its a bit like physics, you cant create or destroy money because it is only a conceptual value applied to what is real. The peopel of the world were robbed when they accepted paper money instead of something material so the curent new is just an extension of that. We wont win in the long run they will change the rules again if we get close.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Indeed it will. My point was more about it no longer resembling in function what it originally was formulated to achieve. Much the same as capitalism itself in that originally it fostered competition (and invention) where now, any sniff of competition gets bought by the big fish, then either shut down or assimilated to amass more for the benefit of same.
Think this may have drifted from archery somewhat!
Yes, the trouble is, to not get to where we are now would have needed a shed load of extra regulation (still no guarantee, either - law of unintended consequences).

We kind of need to get to a post-capitalist kind of society (think Star Trek), where any trading is based on barter of skills, interesting objects, because basic needs are just met as a matter of course.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Its a bit like physics, you cant create or destroy money because it is only a conceptual value applied to what is real. The peopel of the world were robbed when they accepted paper money instead of something material so the curent new is just an extension of that. We wont win in the long run they will change the rules again if we get close.
Ooooh, money... it's like the ultimate conspiracy theory: the fiction that everyone wants to believe is real.
But it's all just promisory notes. An agreement that X has this value. If I give you this, then you can give it to someone else, who can give it to a third person etc.
It comes into existence as soon as it's deemed to exist (usually through things like bank loans), but there's no substance there, apart from an agreement to treat it as if it really exists. Hence bubbles, when the price of something soars past what is reasonable. In the end, the reality sets in and the bubble bursts.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
@little-else but that is exactly how they pretend they are relevant; by convincing people they are “needed” for things like pension funds. That’s how they get away with it.
And I have absolutely no faith in any pension fund; I’ve seen so many lose almost everything just to try and save a bit of tax.
You have to do it your own way; save, invest, work later in life, live frugally.
The “dream” of a comfy pension paid retirement is all but gone to anyone that hasn’t made and stashed at least a million quid.
 
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