Define camouflage

Geophys

Member
I'm not suggesting you do question a judges decision as I'm all for a quite life and judges are only trying to do their job with inadequately worded rule books, but in a previous iteration of my sporting life I served as a senior international judge for the ISSF and appeared as an expert witness at the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne. The case concerned the colours on a competitor's national flag on his jacket which another competitor's country had said were not correct. As an Olympic sport, like archery, the case eventually ended up at the court. The CAS is legal based so it hinged on the legal definition of the colour, the decision of the court was that unless the colour is legally defined in the rules of the sport by either frequency range or Pantone colours, then colour based rules were unenforceable as the actual colour became a matter of opinion, not rule. For instance in rule 307 'blue' is not defined, so a pair of Levi's, which are actually sold as 'Indigo' are not covered. Same applies with 'Olive Drab', no precise definition of what this constitutes is given, so when does it become simply 'Green' or 'Sage' and is thus not covered in the rules. At major multi-sport international competitions the Judges are firmly told that they are not there to interpret the rules but to enforce the 'letter' of the rules, interpretation being the function of the appeals panels and eventually the Court . A number of international sporting organisations did change their rules after this decision.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Nice post.
I think questioning judges' decisions is a bit delicate. I have seen it happen and in full view of all the archers at the particular event. It is not nice for the judge nor is it nice for the archer. I guess neither will be feeling their best afterwards. Perhaps there should be a " plan of action" that can be put in place for the inevitable disagreements.
I believe in the idea that the judge's decision is final. That does not mean that mistakes should continue to be made owing to a lack of effort to put things right.
I once decided to use a larger aperture on my sight. I bought a larger aperture and fitted it to the other end of the threaded rod after fitting the threaded rod through the block the opposite way round. In effect, I had two apertures one on each end of the threaded rod. At the kit inspection the judge asked me about two apertures and was considering whether it was legal or not. After a short examination he did point out that the old aperture was not visible when on aim, so I could continue to use it. It struck me at the time, that the decision could so easily have gone the other way.
Questioning the judge could be seen as questioning the rule itself. It is not disrespect, so much as a need for clarification. When rules are made, the full impact of them can't always be predicted. It is good to have a way out; for archers, judges and the rules themselves.
 


Beardy

The American
American Shoot
I would have argued about the riser as the rules say something along the lines of " no marks added to the bow which may be used for sighting". I know lots of folks who shoot anodised / camo risers with not a second look. Regarding NFAS rules, no we don't have as many daft ones. If I can hit the small animal I'm unlikely to hit the fat bloke in camo. Besides, their position is usually given away by swearing / sarcasm and clouds of cigarette smoke. (slightly in jest but not by much ).
Hee. It was my first field shoot at the weekend and out of the 5 people on my target, two introduced themselves to me with apologies about the swearing they might be the source of. Two out of five doesn't sound that bad, but one of the five was a 16yo who wouldn't say boo to a goose, and another of the five was me! They were good company though and the shooting was grand.
 


AndyW

Active member
Hope to see you around. One of the guys I shoot with had several strokes and died on the table a couple of times - resulting in a total lack of etiquette. When we get to the peg we have to go through the same rigmarole every time - no he's not drunk and yes he swears a lot, he can't help it. The first couple of shoots were interesting but once the usual suspects had seen him around a bit all was gravy.
Pretty tolerant bunch us field archers, we even occasionally allow brummies.
 


jerryRTD

New member
The judges decision is not final that is the problem it can be appealed. The matter is further complicated by the legal status of the entry form, if it is regarded as a contact then the TO could be held liable for the archers out of pocket expenses if the appeal was up held.
 


bimble

Active member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
The judges decision is not final that is the problem it can be appealed. The matter is further complicated by the legal status of the entry form, if it is regarded as a contact then the TO could be held liable for the archers out of pocket expenses if the appeal was up held.
I have seen people respray their bow to comply with camo rules (there was one US archer who turned up at the last indoor world champs with a camo bow, & there was a tipexed bow in the Edinburgh Uni stable as camo bows weren't allowed on GBR trips).

I think it's safe to say that *most* people know what is meant.

If you knowingly try to push the rules, you can't complain if the rules push back. The majority of clothing is perfectly legal, if you then chose to wear something borderline... well...!

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The judges decision is not final that is the problem it can be appealed. The matter is further complicated by the legal status of the entry form, if it is regarded as a contact then the TO could be held liable for the archers out of pocket expenses if the appeal was up held.
I have seen people respray their bow to comply with camo rules (there was one US archer who turned up at the last indoor world champs with a camo bow, & there was a tipexed bow in the Edinburgh Uni stable as camo bows weren't allowed on GBR trips).

I think it's safe to say that *most* people know what is meant.

If you knowingly try to push the rules, you can't complain if the rules push back. The majority of clothing is perfectly legal, if you then chose to wear something borderline... well...!
 


Te Toro Archery

New member
It's become quite common in NZ field and 3D comps for the organisers to insist at lest one member of each shooting group wears a Hi vis vest.
I like this idea because it makes people look like truck drivers, just like me.
My/our club colours are now Hi Vis yellow,,,,or lime green if you want to be really picky.
Most of our clubs official types have heard it all before and just can't be bothered arguing with berks.
The door, the gate or the highway is always open.

John.
 


piscafile

New member
I think camo has a time and a place, but at the archery range maybe not....just my opinion. We used to tease people who turned up in full camo. Every time they spoke we'd all start looking around to woods asking "who said that?".


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