Draw arm shoulder proble.

Windy

New member
Hi all, I have been lurking around this forum for the past few months, making my first post now.
I have this problem of my draw shoulder feeling sudden, short-lived sharp pain whenever Im drawing back the bow and exapnding through the clicker. In the past, I've also experienced my shoulder popping out when im drawing the string back, like as if im relaxing my draw shoulder too much(its not painful, but very annoying. I can just reset my shoulder back in place as i let the string down). Is this a common problem within young archers? Is it serious or do i just need to strengthen my shoulders? Im using 25 inch riser with med limbs at 30 pounds on finger. Draw length is about 28 inches.
 

chuffalump

Well-known member
Might be worth getting your form checked by a coach. However, I'd recommend talking to a doctor/physiotherapist too. You could be doing something wrong or you could actually have a joint or muscle problem.
 

Timid Toad

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Yup, proper analysis by a coach plus seeing your GP with a referral to a physio. It'll also mean rest and rehab, but do as you're told, possibly some form tweaks, and you'll be shooting bigger and better soon enough. You don't say how old you are: if you are in your teens, 30lbs is still possibly too high, so get some help and see if you can wind your limbs out or lighten the poundage other ways.
 

Timid Toad

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An AIUK friend of mine who is having difficulty posting at the moment for unknown reasons has sugested you may have a biceps tendon issue. They recovered after some months of specific exercise using light weights and bands. Something definitely for a physio to advise on.
 

Windy

New member
An AIUK friend of mine who is having difficulty posting at the moment for unknown reasons has sugested you may have a biceps tendon issue. They recovered after some months of specific exercise using light weights and bands. Something definitely for a physio to advise on.
Hi, thanks for the reply. Im 16 currently. Been shooting for almost 4 years now.
 

Murray

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Could be a range of musculoskeletal issues including impingement or ligament damage in and around the rotator cuff. If your shoulder is popping out the some very specific muscles need to be strengthened and tightened to try to minimise the disruption.

The excellent advice from TT above re: physio is the best approach, they'll be able to isolate the cause(s) relatively easily. Suggest you drop bow weight down to around 18lb for now until you're able to see someone.
 

Windy

New member
Hi, thanks for the advice. I'll try to do some shoulder exercises to strengthen the shoulder whenever im not shooting.
 

dvd8n

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I'd recommend going to see a proper sports physio.

I had a similar problem and went to see my gp. He didn't really understand sports injuries and his advice didn't help much at all. After the sports physio visit I felt improvements almost immediately. He gave me a massage and specific exercises to target the specific issue.

You'll probably need to pay but probably only about £30 and I found it money well spent.
 

LionOfNarnia

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Yes, a sports physio!

30 years ago I spent 3 years doing an 'NHS runaround' when I was getting intense hip pains after training/games (American football), I was prodded & poked, x-rayed & blood-tested, generally ran from pillar to post with no diagnosis or treatment. I joined Brighton B-52s in 1991, who had a Sports Physio 'attached' to the club. Took TEN MINUTES to diagnose Tendonitis of the Gluteus Medius & 6 weeks of twice-weekly deep massage & ultrasonic treatment to sort out for good. I played on 'til I was 35.
 

steve

Member
Is it serious or do i just need to strengthen my shoulders?
As others have said, see a qualified physio. There is really no way to self diagnose and every clunk in your shoulder could be doing more damage. Pain is there for a reason. The days of professional footballers being given a "pain killing injection and sent out to play" are long gone. Those guys are now limping around on wrecked knees or are in wheelchairs. At 16 don't take chances with your future health.
 

Windy

New member
As others have said, see a qualified physio. There is really no way to self diagnose and every clunk in your shoulder could be doing more damage. Pain is there for a reason. The days of professional footballers being given a "pain killing injection and sent out to play" are long gone. Those guys are now limping around on wrecked knees or are in wheelchairs. At 16 don't take chances with your future health.
Hi steve, thanks for the advise. Ill be sure to take care of myself :)
 

JohnK

Well-known member
I'm the AIUK friend that TT referred to above.

I had long-head bicep tendinitis: it felt like someone was stabbing a needle into my drawing shoulder from about half way through the draw. Even when I dropped draw weight, the pain persisted.

I cannot overstate how important it is to get proper help with something like this. I had to stop shooting for three months to do very specific low resistance exercises with latex bands and 1 and 2kg weights. Essentially I had to retrain the muscle memory in the shoulder to take the pressure off the tendon. I would never have known that without seeing a great sports physio, and working out in the gym just would have made it worse.

You're young, so your healing rate is going to be great, and you also have many years of shooting ahead of you. Don't make the injury worse now, because you will pay and pay and pay for it later in life.

Best of luck, and good shooting!
 

Eugen

Member
Hi all, I have been lurking around this forum for the past few months, making my first post now.
I have this problem of my draw shoulder feeling sudden, short-lived sharp pain whenever Im drawing back the bow and exapnding through the clicker. In the past, I've also experienced my shoulder popping out when im drawing the string back, like as if im relaxing my draw shoulder too much(its not painful, but very annoying. I can just reset my shoulder back in place as i let the string down). Is this a common problem within young archers? Is it serious or do i just need to strengthen my shoulders? Im using 25 inch riser with med limbs at 30 pounds on finger. Draw length is about 28 inches.
3 main issues I would consider from professional point of view:
1. Your age. You are 16, it means you are still in ‘development’ of your MSK structures. i will not explain details but I will mention that tendons are at risk when you use ‘heavy’ things and risk of RSI. The same with ligaments.
2. Your shoulder: from biomechanical point of view I can predict some ‘errors’ in techniques Which significantly contribute to your issue. This is the reason you felt like your shoulder ‘popping out’ when you draw back.
3. 30 pound I defo will not recommend as a training bow for your age with history of ‘discomfort’. Remember, that it is not about being cool and draw ‘a lot’. So, back to third point. Tendinitis of biceps is possible BUT I would doubt it a bit only because I do not see enough info in your message to confirm this but tendinitis in biceps is very common in adult archers as a RSI and it needs 3-4 month to heal and then gradually restore biomechanics and muscle balance. From your message I would also consider to investigate ligaments of the shoulder capsule and especially transverse ligament. In any way, my good advice will be to check and diagnose properly and do not relay on forum. shoulder for archer is a very important and keep it healthy is important.

on a daily basis I see people who think that they need to feel pain if something wrong with shoulder. This is not always the fact. I suppose your coach should have enough knowledge and experience to understand even tiny biomechanical issues for your age group and suppose he/she able to plan training properly to avoid injuries.
I see coaches who just have these knowledge on a very ‘banal’ or ‘anecdotal’ level but they have a very good level of self-confidence and ‘long years of so called experience’.

remember always: prevent issue is always better then restore and heal. (It is like a car - new car is always better then Repared)

with you a very quick recovery and success !
 

Windy

New member
Hi Eugen, thanks for your comment. It has been almost 2 years since I posted this, I am fine now. thank you!
 

Skybadger

New member
My son has had a similar problem - he's quite comfortable drawing 30lbs but raising the poundage has identified some issues with the clavicle 'popping' as he comes back to draw. He's had numerous coached look him over, at various levels, but we haven't got a solution, so he takes it easy and exercises it all round.
I'd check where you think the popping is coming from, it may be a similar thing.
 

Eugen

Member
My son has had a similar problem - he's quite comfortable drawing 30lbs but raising the poundage has identified some issues with the clavicle 'popping' as he comes back to draw. He's had numerous coached look him over, at various levels, but we haven't got a solution, so he takes it easy and exercises it all round.
I'd check where you think the popping is coming from, it may be a similar thing.
Skybadger, the problem is that during training rare coaches understand physiology. Working with kids and teens this is particularly important Coz their physiological developments isn’t finished yet. they are naturally very flexible and joints are significantly more mobile compare to adults. It means that ligaments and tissue surrounding joint and forming joint capsule are kind of more lax. Plus there are other different important issues to consider specifically to this age groups, including tendons, muscles, endocrine etc. This is the reason why bones very Easy to dislocate or make the issue prone to dislocations in future.
regarding your approach ‘to take it easy and exercises’ - very good and clever decision!!! Well done! This definitely will improve muscle function, muscular balance and strength muscles. Gradual approach to exercise will help to improve issue I believe.
popping is common and is a very different in nature - it can be just a cavitation, it can be tendon of a tight muscle rubbing against bone or its prominence, it can be far more other ‘non-good’ issues.
if popping doesn’t produce pain when it happens, no inflammation or redness or inflammation I would suspect a muscle imbaLance which should be addressed.

one more thing regarding clavicle. Clavicle is a part of our shoulder girdle and arm. If you will ask yourself a simple question: what joint in our body is an attachnemt point of our whole arm, or, simply, at what joint our arm attached to our body? ——- the answer will be very simple: this is onLy one small joint named sternoclavicular joint. This is where clavicle is attached to sternum (vertical long flat chest bone). It means that, for example, if there is muscle imbalance in muscular system of the shoulder girdle and postural changes, then it will obviously affect this small sternoclavicular joint.
This is important to understand because prevent injury is simpler and better than treat it and rehab.

about draw weight I still at the same position - child can draw much more than 30 BUT does it needs to be so all the time? Training bow with lower poundage for exercises and training is good, but gradual progression to 30 with aim to use this 30 pounds bow as a competition bow, is good. Remember that muscles need time to react! So gradually and in a safe manner is always the best. And I would also express my respect to the step you did regarding regular exercising - this is very important.

and REMEMBER: if anyone have got any pains and discomfort or just feels that something doesnt feel right, the best way to react is to visit doctor for a check up and investigate issue and try to solve the problem. Healing and rehab take more months/years than just to investigate and get helped by the doctor.
I know this is a very banal statement for some but this is reality. Keep well guys and have a safe trainings!

(sorry for the long post, tried to explain some things in a simple way)
 

Eugen

Member
This video from Jake Kaminski is quite good.

very good video. Very common ‘mistakes’ you can see. This is kind of difference b/w old style and modern style.

biomechanics is important not because of effectiveness of usage of our body but also safety. Also, if person understands biomechanical aspects of shooting it makes it easier to do it ‘right’ and understand what you do and not only ‘repeating after someone who demonstrates’.

dvd8n, thank you for the video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Having had lifelong issues with my drawing shoulder I’d say see a physio. It’s a very vulnerable joint and not to be messed with.
 
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