Easton ACC ACG & Carbon Ones - Discontinued

Stretch

Well-known member
The Diva + had a low life expectancy for sure but the carbon splinters you describe are no different from a broken X10. If the splinter hits the grass you wont find it period.

I was shooting Diva S 22 by early summer 1990 (cos 2213 were way too much like hard work) so the Diva + was definitely around in the late 80s. And presumably there was a Diva before that - can’t remember ever seeing those. Diva + was certainly in use at the 88 games.

I do also remember there being issues with Bemans where the owner had used a high temperature hot melt to glue the points in - that of course led to the shaft failing at the point on impact with the target. But if we had to legislate for idiot behaviour nobody would be shooting anything.

Don‘t get me wrong, I kind of understand that clubs are mitigating risk. If it is about effort required in finding lost/broken arrows it does make some sense. If it is about tiny (or not so tiny) bits of carbon in the grass it makes no sense.

When I have had to hunt for arrows the ones that have caused the most issues have been light arrows shot from a high draw weight compound. The trajectory is so flat that a small miss high means a long distance. And also it was going so fast nobody saw it. It also means the arrow goes in very flat and very deep - so you can’t rake for it. So in my experience regulating arrow speed for all carbon would make more sense.

I‘ll shut up now.

Stretch
 

Steve1968

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I personally prefer A/C arrows and would not consider all carbon myself, don't know why though, they just never appealed to me and still don't.
However, I do believe it's personal choice and that clubs should allow them to be used. Years ago when I was last shooting regularly, if you missed the target, you would spend about 5 mins looking for it after the end and if not found, would look for it after the shooting session was over and everyone in the club would help, even if it meant taking a few hours to find the arrow/s, nobody left until the arrow/s were found.

With regards to arrow speed and flatter trajectory from compound bows, perhaps they should be more regulated, perhaps limiting the poundage even more. I believe compounds are limited to 60lbs,( think I read that somewhere) perhaps this should be limited to 40-45lbs. This should reduce the arrow speed and the distance the arrow will travel if the target is missed. Personally I don't see the need for 60lbs draw weight, especially when a 36lbs recurve can reach 90m.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
The 60# limit comes from WA and I sorely doubt it is going anywhere anytime soon. All I am pointing out is that (again in my opinion) all carbon arrows in some instances have less risk than AC arrows in other instances. All risks are not made equal.

I’ve shot ACE or X10 since 1991 (when Beman stopped making the 5.5mm Diva S). To be honest I preferred the Diva for the first year or two. It took me another 6 years to get a six gold end at 90m. The only arrow I ever lost was aan ACE and was a pass through on a field course which we never did find.

The challenge is that the cost of entry level AC arrows is now very high (unless a Korean or Chinese brand steps up). So that puts “club” archers shooting aluminium if all carbon is not allowed. I think that cost barrier could impact development of competitive archers.

2p

Stretch
 

Shirt

Well-known member
Perhaps AGB and clubs will have to reconsider their stance on all carbon arrows, now that Easton have decided to discontinue the ACC and ACG arrows. At the moment it looks like the other manufacturers aren't interested in plugging the gap left by Easton.
I don't exactly see that.
Currently most archery shops are doing ACCs at around £10 a go - so £240 a dozen.
The Easton Procomp, despite being marketed as a 'compound arrow' is just a plain parallel shaft with an aluminium core tube. And while the shops haven't necessarily got them in yet, for 2021 Easton will be making them in spines between 1150 and 250, so there's something to fit everyone.
And shops seem to want ~£200-£220 a dozen for them.

There was an episode of the Easton Target Archery podcast back just before Xmas that covered all this if anyone wants it from the horse's mouth.
 

KidCurry

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I don't exactly see that.
Currently most archery shops are doing ACCs at around £10 a go - so £240 a dozen.
£10 x 12 = £120 about £80 - £100 cheaper than Pro Comp :)
To be honest I think the Pro Comp is probably a slightly lighter rehash of the ACG with a 'Pro' label price increase, and, of course, only available in sets of 12 :( Although I am itching to try a set of Pro Comp for my barebow. I think they will be less twitchy for tuning than ACE.
Given the choice I would shoot Carbon One or Victory shafts.
 
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KidCurry

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With regards to arrow speed and flatter trajectory from compound bows, perhaps they should be more regulated, perhaps limiting the poundage even more. I believe compounds are limited to 60lbs,( think I read that somewhere) perhaps this should be limited to 40-45lbs. This should reduce the arrow speed and the distance the arrow will travel if the target is missed. Personally I don't see the need for 60lbs draw weight, especially when a 36lbs recurve can reach 90m.
A 45lb compound is still a very fast bow. The problem here is not the bow, arrow, speed etc it's the disparity between perceived risk in the UK compared with the rest of the world. Limiting bow weight would take the UK off any WA outdoor podium and I doubt the rest of the world will adapt to a UK problem. Although I assume it's a UK problem, I don't actually know if our European friends have similar carbon restrictions.
 

Shirt

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£10 x 12 = £120 about £80 - £100 cheaper than Pro Comp :)
To be honest I think the Pro Comp is probably a slightly lighter rehash of the ACG with a 'Pro' label price increase, and, of course, only available in sets of 12 :( Although I am itching to try a set of Pro Comp for my barebow. I think they will be less twitchy for tuning than ACE.
Given the choice I would shoot Carbon One or Victory shafts.
Christ, my maths really does go sideways first thing in the morning! :D
 

KidCurry

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Lost arrows...

https://www.howdengroup.com/uk-en/archery-gb-insurance-faqs said:
If you are unable to locate the arrow there is potential for a third party claim and we request that the loss is logged with the Insurance Officer at Archery GB who will report and record the loss with the Howden Claims Team.
Does every club/archer do this?
 

bimble

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We have a lost arrow book where you can record the lane you were shooting, distance, how you think you lost it, and the arrow details (and if it's found)
 

KidCurry

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We have a lost arrow book where you can record the lane you were shooting, distance, how you think you lost it, and the arrow details (and if it's found)
So do we but I never knew it had to be sent to the Insurance Officer at Archery GB. To be honest the next time the arrow is mentioned is when it is found by the lawn mower :)
 

little-else

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we ask people to fill out a lost arrow form but not everyone does. Juniors dont want to report their misses, perhaps they think that they will be in trouble or perhaps they just dont want to spend ages looking for them at the end of a session.
once a year I go over the whole field with a metal detector and dig up every bit of metal i can find.
unfortunately a lot of this is remnants of a football stand that was destroyed in an arson attack and bulldozed over the archery field to halp create a berm behind it when the site was levelled so I get bits of all sorts from seat numbers to melted lead flashing from old guttering.
Lonbow arrow piles are by far the commonest find, the wood having mostly rotted away. On the plus side the small change detected comes in handy for replacing the detector batteries.
My experience of what gets recovered seems to fly in the face of what others claim are the problems with carbon arrows but we dont share a field so that means we are unlikely to see anyone suffer the consequences.
carbon fibre is problematical to the human body, like pure silica the body doesnt recognise it as a foreign body very well and the aspect ratio of the fibres mean they travel a long way before getting permanently stuck somewhere. Where the body does recognise then as foreign the t-cells phages, etc cant destroy them so you and up with an agglomeration around the fibres that like with asbestos can easily become cancers. Weirdly though, carbon fibres may make a decent scaffold for bone cells but like metals theiy are non porous so have limitations.

The prohibition of C arrows use should be based on the impossibility of mitigating any losses of such arrows rather than a knee jerk we dont like them attitude you get from some quarters. listen to some 80 year old archers and they will tell you they heard the same when ali arrows came out (and detachable limbs, metal risers etc).
It would be easy to thread fine wire into the woven carbon mat and thus make them detectable. Al not the best choice for this a fine copper or maybe nickel wire would be better. The arrow makers buy in their carbon as a resin impregnated cloth so you need to go quite far back in the production chain to get this done and that will be reflected in the cost.
 

Kernowlad

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Every time I use my all carbon arrows, it feels a bit naughty. The joys of moving from target to field.
I still use ACGs for long range shots; looks like I’d better take extra care of them!
 

snowman

Member
I have tried using some silver based heated rear window repair paint on the insides of old fibreglass arrows I had hanging around. Results a bit hit and miss with metal detector or a stud detector I have used taped to the end of a stick as emergency detector.

I'm sure other variations such as painting the outside of shafts with metal rich paints can be tried. If camouflage or wood designs can be painted on then why not something else. Other thoughts - metallic paints for logos, electroplating metal layer on inside of shaft. I know off the wall ideas are easy to come up with but then development depts get paid enough to make them work.

By putting this in the public domain does it prevent anyone trying to patent the idea?
 

ATH

Member
A 45lb compound is still a very fast bow. The problem here is not the bow, arrow, speed etc it's the disparity between perceived risk in the UK compared with the rest of the world. Limiting bow weight would take the UK off any WA outdoor podium and I doubt the rest of the world will adapt to a UK problem. Although I assume it's a UK problem, I don't actually know if our European friends have similar carbon restrictions.
I can confirm that every archer from around the world I have ever tried to explain the no carbon arrows issue to, has been utterly perplexed. Somehow clubs and archers in other countries manage to find their misses. 🤷‍♂️
 

bimble

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I can confirm that every archer from around the world I have ever tried to explain the no carbon arrows issue to, has been utterly perplexed. Somehow clubs and archers in other countries manage to find their misses. 🤷‍♂️
I remember seeing an Australian archer being surprised that we weren't allowed to wear sandals when shooting... "but what about when it's hot?"
 

brianmac

New member
So 'Pro Comp' is the 'modern day' ACC. I'm not sure many improving archers who want to upgrade from their £50 set of allys will want to fork out £240 for a set of arrows only available in 1 doz sets.
I don't keep up to speed with other manufactures. Is there an alternative a/c shaft at about the £11 price point?
 

brianmac

New member
If anyone is interested, with the acc etc, arrows discontinued, I can tell you that Cartel, a korean company are making composite arrows at a modest price of £5 shaft only. Merlin archery are selling them, a pack of 6 with knocks and points for £30. now I know some archers who are good at what they do will poo poo these out of hand, and funny enough they automatically assume if you are not very good at it(like me) you know nothing about the sport. the cold hard fact is weather it is a £300 bow, or a £1,300 bow you still have to hold it still. If your pb is around 500 with acc arrows, you will not get any better throwing money at it. I myself will purchase 6 of these arrows and see what they are like. I myself shoot a PSE Lazer with acc arrows and I am getting better at it after 5 shoots with this bow, scoring around 300 with 3doz arrows at 60 yds on a full face target. I don't think a korean company will make rubbish arrows. not for the pro, but should be ok for the average club archer.....we will see.
 
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