Ethical dilemma

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Just do what I keep doing. Tell 'em it's for the Agincourt 600 year anniversary, and they'd be getting involved in a historic event which will feature documentary makers, the Guinness World Records and be a landmark event in the history of England. I've landed loads of yew trees that way, and I'll probably only be taking about 2 of the bows I actually make to the Azincourt 2015 event. Not that they'd know.
Could always give me one of the others and I'll take it. :)
 

WillS

New member
Could always give me one of the others and I'll take it. :)
If I have some decent yew bows that I think represent me well enough at that point (as I'm still learning!) and you're going to Azincourt 2015 you're more than welcome to have one.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Just to go off topic briefly, at Agincourt next year are they going to line up all 1,000-odd archers and get them to fire off volleys military style? It seems to me an almost unique opportunity to find out exactly what an arrow storm actually looked like.
Last I heard the count was just over 4000 archers. Might have to do them in ranks, otherwise its a long line.
 

Lucasade

New member
Del - the problem comes in who does the cutting. By the time the council do it the tree is dead from Dutch Elm so only good for firewood.

Ravens Eye - wasn't Henry V's line 800 yards long?
 
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Deleted member 7654

Guest
Del - the problem comes in who does the cutting. By the time the council do it the tree is dead from Dutch Elm so only good for firewood.

Ravens Eye - wasn't Henry V's line 800 yards long?
This is a perennial point for debate.
IMO...
As long as rot hasn't set in and the outer layers where the bugs were under the bark has been removed I think Elm that has been felled is ok. The first decent longbow I ever made was of Elm (60#) which had been felled due to having Dutch Elm, I think it had been on the ground for some time too.
Del
 

Lucasade

New member
That's an interesting thought - although most of the dead stuff is extremely dead...

i've just looked at the dress code on the Azincourt 2015 site. It specifies bare thighs and hose round the knees- are we looking at the largest act of mass public indecency ever?
 

WillS

New member
It specifies a lot of things. There's also two guys running it simultaneously with two different ideas on historical accuracy, and a lot (a LOT) of reenactors going. There's no way in hell they're gonna turn down thousands of people because their hose are wrong, but they are pushing for extreme accuracy. It's all well and good writing down "hose must be separate, and cut from 2/2 twill wool no bright colours allowed" and so on, but its clear a load of reenactors are gonna turn up in their Oxfam tights and still be allowed to take part ;)

I mean, they're allowing any draw weights, so most people going will be shooting some 70# laminate or something.

I'm not sure anybody is gonna do the rolled down hose thing. Might as well lick some toilet bowls in preparation, so we all have real dysentery and the smell is historically accurate.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Del - the problem comes in who does the cutting. By the time the council do it the tree is dead from Dutch Elm so only good for firewood.

Ravens Eye - wasn't Henry V's line 800 yards long?
Quite possibly, but that was including men at arms, archers were generally deployed in the triangle formation...because it worked for archers.

I'm curious as to the event's accuracy, hopefully I'll be able to take part and get some decent gear, noticed WillS didn't say I could have one of his many Yew warbows that he wouldn't be taking. :p

Having bare thighs and hose round your knees would only happen if everyone had dysentery, though with that in mind with 4000 archers already signed up, plus the men at arms and knights who are going to be shot, plus the public watching there is probably going to be a lack of toilets, so dysentery might be a real prospect.
 

WillS

New member
Offer was genuine mate.

As for clothing - don't buy stuff online off the peg. From what I've heard (and seen) it will have to be custom fitted to you. Just need to look at some BBC documentaries for badly fitting medieval clothing - hose that's baggy, pourpoints that look like a child's waistcoat stretched over a full grown adult, linen shirts that are bleached white... All of that stuff will (apparently) be turned down at the gate.

Chrissie Carnie is a superb medieval seamstress so she's worth talking to. As is Sarah Thursfield. There arent many shops that will do a good job, as you'll just end up looking like a reenactor. Tricky though, as its probably only gonna be used once, but you wanna do it right....

Buy shoes first. You can get cheap nasty plasticy thin medieval boots that all look the same and won't last 5 minutes in wet mud, or stunning hand made medieval ankle boots based on existing finds that will last a lifetime. They'll look good at other shoots, too.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Offer was genuine mate.

As for clothing - don't buy stuff online off the peg. From what I've heard (and seen) it will have to be custom fitted to you. Just need to look at some BBC documentaries for badly fitting medieval clothing - hose that's baggy, pourpoints that look like a child's waistcoat stretched over a full grown adult, linen shirts that are bleached white... All of that stuff will (apparently) be turned down at the gate.

Chrissie Carnie is a superb medieval seamstress so she's worth talking to. As is Sarah Thursfield. There arent many shops that will do a good job, as you'll just end up looking like a reenactor. Tricky though, as its probably only gonna be used once, but you wanna do it right....

Buy shoes first. You can get cheap nasty plasticy thin medieval boots that all look the same and won't last 5 minutes in wet mud, or stunning hand made medieval ankle boots based on existing finds that will last a lifetime. They'll look good at other shoots, too.
Ah, sorry I didn't see your offer. Cheers :) . I do leather work as a hobby so if I get a pattern I could make some easily enough. I do have some leather boots (boots rather than shoes) that I got from re-enactment, though they probably won't be accurate.
 

Lucasade

New member
I'm just imagining the possible headlines - police called to a disturbance, when they arrived they found 4,000 heavily armed people all with their trousers round their knees...
 

blakey

Active member
Nah, common elm makes fantastic bows.
I understood Common Elm makes reasonable flatbows, but poor D-section longbow/warbows. Common elm is coarser grained and more prone to stress fractures. They are notorious for dropping branches. Wych, particularly from higher altitudes, has a finer closer grain. Only what I've read? :)
 

Lucasade

New member
Well it's taken three months, five emails, two meetings of the parish council and a conversation with our county councillor but permission to cut the tree came through this morning. I'd better cut it quick before anyone changes their mind!
 
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Deleted member 7654

Guest
Well it's taken three months, five emails, two meetings of the parish council and a conversation with our county councillor but permission to cut the tree came through this morning. I'd better cut it quick before anyone changes their mind!
Bravo!
A triumph for perseverance and common sense. :)
Any contacts who have been helpful are to be treasured. I've found Harlow council V helpful in the past. Also this creates a precedent and you can then say to land owners etc "I've cut trees with permission from the council"
Well done! :cake::beer:
BTW. You can leave the underbark surface as the back of the bow and get a light, dark effect like Yew. I think the sap wood and heart wood have virtually identical properties. Anyhow, that's how I made my 100# Warbow (heavily heat treated on the belly)
Del
 

Lucasade

New member
Nice result, all is not lost!
It seems the key is getting to the tree officer without going through the switchboard! He was really friendly and even asked me to send him a picture of the finished bow.

Del - I think I'm going to have 9 or 10 feet of straight length to play with. What's the longest I should go before it gets silly?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
It seems the key is getting to the tree officer without going through the switchboard! He was really friendly and even asked me to send him a picture of the finished bow.
I guess the person in charge has more confidence in the decision making process than the person on the switchboard who sometimes can be less sure of the situation ,and may err on the said of caution as a result. Being flexible about issues like this is much easier when you have a view of the bigger picture.
 

Lucasade

New member
I think the person on the switchboard got the wrong end of the stick and while putting me through gave them the impression I wanted to clear cut swathes of council woodland or something. I also guessed that a request coming with official blessing would be treated differently to Joe Bloggs calling up on a Friday afternoon asking to cut wood.
 
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Deleted member 7654

Guest
It seems the key is getting to the tree officer without going through the switchboard! He was really friendly and even asked me to send him a picture of the finished bow.

Del - I think I'm going to have 9 or 10 feet of straight length to play with. What's the longest I should go before it gets silly?
Some of the MR Bows are 2m long ! Better too long than too short as you can always take it down a tad. Go wide (about 40mm) trapeziod section heat treated belly.
Current Hazel warbowstave I'm roughing out is 81"
Del
 
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