Falling off the bottom of the sight...

Emmadragon

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So, now that I'm getting up to longer distances, I'm experiencing what I've heard is quite common for female archers particularly; my sight pin is about to advance off the bottom of my vertical sight bar. I can't move the sight bar any further down, it's already as much like an 'L' as it can be, and I also can't advance it any further inwards towards the bow.
So...what to do next? Is there a make of sight with a longer vertical sight bar than my Avalon Tec One?
Is there an alternative to going out and buying a new sight?
What do other archers do when faced with this problem?
I don't particularly want to have to put my sight onto the 'back' of the riser instead of the front; I had to do that last year (with less good equipment) and found a lot of string interference ensued.
Any suggestions gratefully received, as always.
Thanks, Emma.
 

geoffretired

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If you try to shoot your longest distance, using the point of the arrow on the gold, you will find out if it is possible to use the sight or not. If you need the arrow on the gold to reach 70m for example, then where ever you put the sight, the arrow will be blocking your view of the gold. If you can reach 70m with the arrow point below the boss, there is a chance of using a sight.
In some instances( I did this) you can put the sight right out as far forward as possible and set the scale bar as low as possible on the extension, so you can position the sight ring below the arrow.
I know that sounds odd, but it does work.You won't see the sight wen toy raise the bow as the arrow is fully forwards but when you draw the arrow back the sight becomes visible.( rather like some archers see the end of the long rod when shooting clout.
 

LionOfNarnia

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Yes.

I'd add to that by suggesting that it may be the right time to start training for more limb poundage. I had the same issue, also with a Tec One, on my 'old' bow but now on #36 I can comfortably reach 70m with some sight travel left.
 

geoffretired

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If you fix a straw onto the arrow shelf, below the arrow and sticking forward about 6 inches, you will get a good idea of how it works.
 

ben tarrow

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Maybe consider some coaching (if you havent already)
Good technique can be worth yards on the field.
You dont say anything about your setup. What draw weight, bow length, arrow type, arrow length do you have?
I dont know about the avalon, but some bowsights have multiple threaded holes drilled in the back of the vertical section, so you can move the vertical section up (or down) and put the two screws above and below the horizontal part fitting in different holds
 

AndyS

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Depending on what you already use, lighter arrows might be another (more expensive) option
 

jonUK76

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I can't move the sight bar any further down, it's already as much like an 'L' as it can be, and I also can't advance it any further inwards towards the bow.
So...what to do next? Is there a make of sight with a longer vertical sight bar than my Avalon Tec One?
With both my Fivics and Shibuya sights, and shooting with a 25" riser, the sight movement is not limited by the length of the sight bar but more the path of the arrow. In other words if I move the sight lower than a certain point it would actually touch the arrow...

One possible "hack" you might be able to do is insert the extension bar in backwards - so the sight is between the riser and the string. Due to the effect of parallax this should give you a bit more range at the lowest sight setting.

Going up in draw weight or using more efficient (i.e. lightweight carbon) limbs is one possibility. Changing arrows is another. Easton A/C/E's are possibly the best option for extending range over heavier arrows (they are lighter than ACC's, ACG's or X10's and of course the aluminium arrows) - assuming like many of us in the UK you can't use pure carbon shafts outdoors.
 

Emmadragon

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geoffretired - thanks, I will try that. I understand the principle of moving the sightbar as you suggest, and using the straw as a demo.
Aslan - I'm in the process of training for more poundage, just gone up from #20 limbs (I was pulling #24 OTF, with the limb bolts wound all the way in) to #26 OTF, with the bolts wound most of the way out. I know I need to get up to at least #30 to make any really decent distance, but that's going to take a little while longer. Have just got to the point where #26 is relatively comfortable, after shooting at least 4 times a week for about 6 weeks, so it'll probably take another season to get up to #30, but there's no desperate rush. I don't want to injure myself by going too heavy, too quick. And I know that I can get 100 yards at a push from #30, because I have done many years ago.
Ben - already having coaching, which has already improved the form no end. Although I suspect our coach might be starting to lose interest in us. My setup is as follows: Core Air 25" riser, WNS Premium Alpha 68" limbs, drawing #26 OTF, arrows are 27" ACCs with EP16 plastifletch vanes. The Avalon sight is indeed adjustable as you describe, but I can't make it any more 'L' shaped than it already is.
AndyS - I just splashed out on the ACCs, so my purse can't take another hit on arrows for quite some time. I do aspire to ACEs eventually, but not yet.
jonUK76 - I did just that last year - reversed the sight bar to get to 50m with my ally arrows, but had so many problems with the string being impeded by the sight that I'm not terribly keen to try that again. It's always a last resort, however.
Many thanks, all, Emma.
 

AndyS

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I did just that last year - reversed the sight bar to get to 50m with my ally arrows, but had so many problems with the string being impeded by the sight that I'm not terribly keen to try that again. It's always a last resort, however.
Many thanks, all, Emma.
My wife shot for a season with a reversed sight to get out to 70m (then went to ACEs & a bit more poundage) she was also using a Tec-one which I modified slightly to allow it to mount closer to the riser and away from the string.

The depressions in the sight bar mean that the reversed sight is very close to the string, so basically I took out one of the "avalon tec-one" labels from the extension bar, leaving a groove. Then glued in a small strip of aluminium / hard plastic (can't remember exactly what I used) that didn't quite fill the length of the label groove and so created another "depression" for the sight bar locking screw that would locate the sight closer to the riser and away from the string. It seemed to work OK, I don't remember any string fouling problems.
 

geoffretired

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Emmadragon and AndyS, Just been looking at the sight and wonder of the scale bar can be removed from its extension bar and fitted to the other end, so the labels don't get in the way of mounting close to the riser, and on the inside.
 

AndyS

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Possibly Geoff, I never looked at that because she wanted to use the sight the normal way round for shorter distances, and just reversed for 70m - so having an alternate location on the sight bar seemed the only sensible option - change distance without having to get the tools out :cheerful:
 

geoffretired

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Cheers AndyS I can see the advantage of not needing tools.
Once changed to the other end, it might work out both ways afterwards without tools.
 

brman

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I've got a similar problems. 26lb limbs and run out of range on the sight at about 50 yards. I also have an avalon one sight. I've not tried reversing the sight but I have found that I can get the sight pretty close the riser just by clamping on the part where the label is on the extension. I know the label is flexible plastic but it still clamped fine although it did mark up the label.
can it not be done that way when reversed?
ie like this:

btw. that is my wife's riser and sight. With 24lb limbs that is her sight position (obviously upside down) at 40 yards. ie basically as far down as it goes....
 
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AndyS

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It certainly can be done that way, but we found that after some time shooting like that the label was getting damaged and starting to lift anyway, so we went for a more durable solution - but it'd certainly work at least short term, and who knows, maybe the labels are more durable now - this was a few years ago and the sight was already second hand when she got it.
 

brman

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Not sure it will be very durable, I only shot a few ends with it clamped on that bit and it marked the label up. So I guess i would say it is ok to experiment with but I think modding it a good idea longer term.
Does it need anything other than the label removed? On mine it looks like the slot for the label is the same width as the recesses for the clamp button (iyswim). I am not taking the label off on mine though to find out. At least, not yet.... ;)
 

Whitehart

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In future a 66" bow would help with your draw length - you cannot break the laws of physics.

If you use a platform tab build up the platform so your hand is lower and your hand to eye distance is greater. The A&F tab is great for this as the tab platform is big enough to add some depth and helps you to keep a solids anchor.
 

Corax67

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When you run out of sight - and pretty much everyone does at some point - the only real way to go is higher limb poundage and / or lighter arrows.

Neither is a cheap alternative but they will get you out there.



Karl
 

little-else

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there are great disadvantages to using light limbs at distance, the arc your arrows have to fly in mean that when they get to the target they are no longer travelling perpendicular to the boss but raining down on it at quite an angle and that means any small vertical error in your aim becomes an error in distance on the arc so dropping the arrows short rather than just low. this makes going up in limb weight an imperative.
I draw 30.5 lbs @30" on my recurve and get there at 100 yds with the sights all the way in and just about bottomed out. If I use my 32# limbs (35lbs draw weight) the I have bags of sight to play with. As you already use ACC's then no need to spend a fortune on slimmer arrows as the advantage will be minimal.
So 30lbs holding weight will do you for 70m and give you a bit of leeway on the sights but see if you can try some intermediate limbs first as your arrows may be a bit whippy. I havent had a real problem with underspined arrows whe swapping between limbs, you can compensate to quite a large degree by tweaking the button
 

mbaker74

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Do you have an adjustable thumb ledge on your tab? If so raise it up a notch or two. This has the effect of dropping the nock level, so increasing the range for a given sight mark.
 
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