[Horsebow] Feather fletchings for horsebow arrows.

philhoney

New member
Hi,
I have just ordered my grandaughter a 34lb horsebow.
Am I right in thinking that as the bow is shot without an arrow rest then feathers will be needed as opposed to plastic fletchings?
Will alloy arrows (correct spine) do until she gets the hang of the bow as they will be easier to find when she misses?
I know about thumb rings but I dont think that she is ready for that so which would be the best, a tab or glove?
Sorry for all the questions but this is our first taste of traditional archery and we have lots to learn.
Phil
 

rmcpb

New member
My youngest son shoots a horsebow and uses a finger tab, woods or carbon arrows (Carbon Express Predator II 30-45) and always feather fletches.

The combo works well except he now wants a stronger bow................
 

Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
She will need a guard for her bow hand as the feathers could scrape against the skin of her hand, although my daughter shoots a horsebow quite happily without . She could use a leather glove or one of the special guards sold for longbows. For the draw hand either a tab or a glove is fine. I always use a glove despite the fact that I am regularly reminded by other archers that a tab will give a much cleaner release. For my part I think that a glove is much easier and more practical when shooting field. You can't lose it when it is on your hand! Also it is essential if she is going to shoot from a horse.....
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
Thanks rmcpb and DL.
That's another set of arrows to fletch then. The glove for her bow hand is ready and waiting and I'm making a tab to fit her.
The nearest she'll get to a horse is looking at the semi-wild ones on the common on the way to archery.
Phil
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
Another question.
Is there a reference chart for horse bow arrows or will the Easton recurve one do?
It is a 34lb bow and her draw length is about 26". On the youth chart it recommends 1616 and on the adult chart 1714. Does this sound right?
Phil
 

Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
There is no chart for horse bow arrows that I know of and I am only familiar with wooden arrows. I shoot a 35lb bow and use wooden arrows rated at 35lb, however this is not the case for everyone and trial and error is the only way to find out what is right. My 12 year old daughter shoots a light horse bow which is 20lb and she shoots little 1/4 inch wooden arrows with a 20g point. These are probably rated at only 3lb but they come out of that bow beautifully.

Maybe the best thing is to take her and her new bow down to an archery supplier and try different arrows, rather than ordering them in advance and it being unsuitable.
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
We won't be buying new arrows yet because between us we have a dozen sets in spines from the smallest Jazz size up to 1916 as well as several at the club that we could borrow. I'm just trying to work out which ones would be the best as it would be a waste to rip the plastic fletchings off to fit the feathers only to find out they are wrong.
Phil
 

Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Hi Phil - why not shoot them with the plastic fletchings to start with? Others do that. It may not be authentic but it would work if the spine is right the fletchings will not touch the bow as the arrow is loosed.
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
It's not the bow contact I'm worried about. She had a go on Sunday shooting one of our beginner bows off the hand and ended up with a few scratches on her index finger from the plastic fletchings. I know a glove will prevent the scratches but I was hoping that feathers would be a bit more forgiving as regards arrow flight.
Phil

Hi Phil - why not shoot them with the plastic fletchings to start with? Others do that. It may not be authentic but it would work if the spine is right the fletchings will not touch the bow as the arrow is loosed.
 

Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Hi,
It's not the bow contact I'm worried about. She had a go on Sunday shooting one of our beginner bows off the hand and ended up with a few scratches on her index finger from the plastic fletchings. I know a glove will prevent the scratches but I was hoping that feathers would be a bit more forgiving as regards arrow flight.
Phil
Hi again Phil
It will be interesting to hear your feedback on the difference. It seems that there is no reliable horse bow manual in this country and we are all having to work it out by trial and error. I am seriously interested in understanding more about what does and doesn't work so I would really love to know how she gets on and what works for her in the end.

I have seen people shooting very proficiently with a horsebow and aluminium plastic fletched arrows. I only tried it once myself and the arrows went all over the place because the spine was too weak. The Koreans shoot with very low profile feather fletchings, and horse back archers use arrows with four fletches sometimes to avoid the need to position a cock feather. All I can tell you is that I have definitely drawn blood shooting off the hand with feather fletchings!

I use great big 5" fletchings now, and they seem to stabilise the arrow nicely, although at longer distances I am probably losing a bit of distance due to the weight and drag. One good thing is that I can generally see where my arrows have landed - whether that is in the target or on the ground!!
 

Si2

New member
Plastic fletchings are designed to be stiff so they can scratch or cut the knuckle when they pass over.
This can be made worse by knocking too low.

Feathers are a better bet as they will fold when passing over any obstruction.

The only issue I've had with feathers has been the base of them.
You need to be careful gluing them on to make sure the front end is secure.
I tend to sand the base down as thin as possible before applying the fletching and I also trim the front to remove any sharp edges.
I find a double wrap of silk can prevent the front of the fletch base catching a knuckle.

I also often put a dab of glue on the very front end to secure it and create a smooth edge when I've stuck them all on.


I would be wary of using plastic vanes off of the knuckle, but I am sure a leather glove woudl provide adequate protection to try out a few arrows.

The issue with shooting around a bow is that the arrows must be tuned to the bow so that distance from full draw to the bow handle is 2.25 cycles of the paradox induced oscilation. In other words, the fletchings need to be as far away from the handle as possible when it passes the handle.
There are so many variables that affect this motion that those who shoot wooden arrows tend to just give it a go and experiment empirically.

If you have a selection then I'd say just chuck on a leather glove and have a go...


Si
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
I'll get back to you on this once the bow arrives and we've had a chance to experiment.
Ever since we started shooting I have always put the smallest fletchings (1 1/2") on her and her sisters arrows because of the low poundage bows but now I have bought 2 1/2" feathers as a compromise between stability and speed. They are about 1/2" tall but I can always trim them if they slow the arrow too much.
I have been chatting to my son about it and have decided to take a few of each of our various sets of arrows the first time she uses the bow and the ones that fly the best will be the ones to get the feathers.

Following on from what you say about there being no manual perhaps we could start a new thread where everyone who shoots this type of bow can list what works for them, ie. bow length, draw weight and length, arrow details, gloves, tabs, thumb ring etc
As we are still waiting for the bow maybe I can leave it to you to get the thread started. If enough people join in it could be a very useful item.
Phil


Hi again Phil
It will be interesting to hear your feedback on the difference. It seems that there is no reliable horse bow manual in this country and we are all having to work it out by trial and error. I am seriously interested in understanding more about what does and doesn't work so I would really love to know how she gets on and what works for her in the end.

I have seen people shooting very proficiently with a horsebow and aluminium plastic fletched arrows. I only tried it once myself and the arrows went all over the place because the spine was too weak. The Koreans shoot with very low profile feather fletchings, and horse back archers use arrows with four fletches sometimes to avoid the need to position a cock feather. All I can tell you is that I have definitely drawn blood shooting off the hand with feather fletchings!

I use great big 5" fletchings now, and they seem to stabilise the arrow nicely, although at longer distances I am probably losing a bit of distance due to the weight and drag. One good thing is that I can generally see where my arrows have landed - whether that is in the target or on the ground!!
 

philhoney

New member
Hi Si,
Can you read my mind?
The sharp corners have been removed already and I always put a dab of glue on either end of the fletch. I was thinking of putting a few turns of electrical tape just over the front of each feather instead of silk for the reason you gave. I know it's not very traditional but neither are aluminium arrows. We'll be sticking with the alloys for now as we are still shooting outdoors and I expect she will miss the boss quite a few times as she gets the hang of the bow.
Phil

Plastic fletchings are designed to be stiff so they can scratch or cut the knuckle when they pass over.
This can be made worse by knocking too low.

Feathers are a better bet as they will fold when passing over any obstruction.

The only issue I've had with feathers has been the base of them.
You need to be careful gluing them on to make sure the front end is secure.
I tend to sand the base down as thin as possible before applying the fletching and I also trim the front to remove any sharp edges.
I find a double wrap of silk can prevent the front of the fletch base catching a knuckle.

I also often put a dab of glue on the very front end to secure it and create a smooth edge when I've stuck them all on.


I would be wary of using plastic vanes off of the knuckle, but I am sure a leather glove woudl provide adequate protection to try out a few arrows.

The issue with shooting around a bow is that the arrows must be tuned to the bow so that distance from full draw to the bow handle is 2.25 cycles of the paradox induced oscilation. In other words, the fletchings need to be as far away from the handle as possible when it passes the handle.
There are so many variables that affect this motion that those who shoot wooden arrows tend to just give it a go and experiment empirically.

If you have a selection then I'd say just chuck on a leather glove and have a go...


Si
 

Genghis

New member
One other point to ponder - shooting with a Mediterranean (three-finger) draw from a horse bow, the arrows should pass on the left of the bow (for a right-handed archer) but using a thumbring, the arrows should be shot from the right side of the bow (across the thumb for a right-handed archer).

It has been my experience that the change from one side of the bow to the other involves a change in spine so you may need to rethink your arrows if she decides to try a thumbring.
 

philhoney

New member
Hi Genghis,
Another snippit of info tucked away, thank you.
For the time being I think she will be shooting with a glove on each hand. She hates tabs and all summer has been shooting her compound off the fingers (and I mean fingers) and no matter what anyone told her always let her anchor creep up to the side of her face. That is the way she prefers to shoot and is what really promted me into getting her a trad bow. I just hope the bow suits her and she can enjoy shooting again.
Phil

One other point to ponder - shooting with a Mediterranean (three-finger) draw from a horse bow, the arrows should pass on the left of the bow (for a right-handed archer) but using a thumbring, the arrows should be shot from the right side of the bow (across the thumb for a right-handed archer).

It has been my experience that the change from one side of the bow to the other involves a change in spine so you may need to rethink your arrows if she decides to try a thumbring.
 

gorbalite

New member
I read an article a couple of years ago in a magazine[Traditional Bowhunters Magazine] that raising the nock height an extra i/2" or so would allow you to shoot vanes instead of feathers without them hitting the shelf and bouncing off in all directions.Since then I have also seen advice that the same technique on a longbow with the arrow shot off the bowhand reduces the risk of cutting the hand with the feathers
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
I have never read this anywhere bur reading between the lines and using some common sense and lateral thinking have come to the same conclusion. I have been fighting an uphill battle with my clubmates when setting up beginners bows. Just about all of them insist that you can set the nocking point about 1/8" high but no higher.
I have refurbished about a dozen glass fibre and wooden bows this year which meant stripping off all the worn out arrow rests, sights with bits missing, odd bits of tape as well as old paint and varnish which made them look rough. A decent coat of spray paint or laquer and they were ready for my patent arrow rests and sights. The rests were of a "J" shape made from "R" type cable clips. No matter how thin I made the tail they all said that it would contact the fletchings. I had already moved the nocking points up to about 1/4" above level and proved my point at our annual have a go event when all the refurbished bows were used with no problems.
Horses for courses. If your nock point needs to be "x" distance above level to avoid contact or ripping your hand to pieces then that's where it needs to be. There are no hard and fast, set in stone rules when it comes to traditional archery because every bow and archer is different.
It would be nice though if there was a website that gave a guide to basic setup for bare bows.
Phil

I read an article a couple of years ago in a magazine[Traditional Bowhunters Magazine] that raising the nock height an extra i/2" or so would allow you to shoot vanes instead of feathers without them hitting the shelf and bouncing off in all directions.Since then I have also seen advice that the same technique on a longbow with the arrow shot off the bowhand reduces the risk of cutting the hand with the feathers
 

TypeSixteen

New member
i have a recurve horse bow of this nature picked up in Budapest when i lived near there, and make lots of arrows, 26" at 35lb = 30/35 spine and any feather fletch under 4" be fine (depending on use).
i use tiny 2.3/4 triangle feather (own cut) on 5/16D shafts and 100grain piles which are almost the same as Medival Turkish arrows.
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
Mainly due to the bad weather she gave the bow a go for the first time tonight. We are still outdoors so due to the limited time available only shot about 2 doz arrows but had a big smile on her face all evening.
I got her to shoot several different arrows and so far 26" XX75 alloys at 1716 seem to give the best results. Most of her shots fell short at 30yds but towards the end started to find her aiming point and managed to get some arrows on the boss.
Something is happening that I can't explain. My son had a go with the bow with the XX75s and swears that the arrows are flying sideways and left of the target but they all hit the boss at 90deg. Is this normal or are the arrows wrong?
One thing that made me smile and convinced me that I had made the right decision in buying the bow was the comment made by my grandaughter as we were leaving the field. "I'll shoot this bow most of the time and only use the compound when we have a competition" She's only 12 but has already grasped the fact that shooting a horsebow is an art where the compound is using a machine if you do everything right.
Phil
 
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