[Horsebow] Field shooting horsebow

Trunkles

The American
American Shoot
Hi Andy.
I have emailed the editor for the NFAS and joined your campagn for a separate catogory for horsebows.
Having attended two shoots now using the magyar bow (hunting tackle catogary) it is quite clear you have more chance of wining the lottery than getting placed anywhere near in a competion against a modern recurve.

Then again maybe its just me thats rubbish
Len, does it really matter about winning when you are having fun. You were when you shot it with us indoors.
 

ChakaZulu

New member
I do hope you're not suggesting that levelling the playing field doesn't matter because it's all about having fun. That's just a patently bad argument.

Of course it's all about having fun, but competing is part of the fun. I like blatting off arrows down the woods on my own but competition adds something. Otherwise we wouldn't have scoring at all, would we.

Competing on a level(ish) playing field is clearly more fun that not. If we're going to ignore like-for-like competition then compound unlimited may as well compete against junior ELBs. So long as we're all having fun it doesn't matter, right?

Like I say, I hope that wasn't what you were saying and I just misunderstood, in which case apologies for the rant...:beer:
 

Andy Gilbert

New member
I do hope you're not suggesting that levelling the playing field doesn't matter because it's all about having fun. That's just a patently bad argument.

Of course it's all about having fun, but competing is part of the fun. I like blatting off arrows down the woods on my own but competition adds something. Otherwise we wouldn't have scoring at all, would we.

Competing on a level(ish) playing field is clearly more fun that not. If we're going to ignore like-for-like competition then compound unlimited may as well compete against junior ELBs. So long as we're all having fun it doesn't matter, right?

Like I say, I hope that wasn't what you were saying and I just misunderstood, in which case apologies for the rant...:beer:
And there's me thinking that you weren't competitive........
 

Trunkles

The American
American Shoot
I do hope you're not suggesting that levelling the playing field doesn't matter because it's all about having fun. That's just a patently bad argument.
Whoops - sorry not what I was thinking but it is how it reads - have a beer and chill :beer::beer:
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I can understand you being upset that you can't compete, and writing to the governing body can't do any harm, but.....
The rules were in place long before you bought the bow, if you wanted to compete, then surely it would be best to buy a bow that's competitive within the rules.
I shoot ELB I refuse to use a band for a sight, or an aiming marker when I shoot target. This puts me at a disadvantage. I don't complain, because I know that the rules were there before I started shooting, and why should they be changed to suit me.

Use the Hun bow for fun, and a bow that fits the rules for competition. Or get so good with the Hun that you can compete with centre shot bows, I've seen it done.

Dan
 

ChakaZulu

New member
Shoot the hun for fun and compete withsomething else? Why?

If, as I've said, competition is part of the fun, and if it is right that there are quite a few people shooting such bows now (the rules possibly existing before many had such bows), why not make a new class?

If it's just one or two people then sure, they can just fit in where they can, as I would if I decided to enter a home-made bow against Borders and Blackbrooks. But if there are enough people then your only argument against a new class seems to be the status quo.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I am not completely against a new class, but where do you stop?
Should we have a class for Kyudo bows, there are people who want to shoot them? Do we really want competitions with a dozen classes each with only a few archers in?

Also how do you define the new class, without either it being too close to HT / Trad, or so restrictive that many of the Asiatic recurves are excluded?
I realise that these problems can be sorted, but they do need to be thought about before calling for a new class.

My suggestion would be to let the Asiatic recurves shoot in the same class as the American Flatbows, as most of these recurves have man made laminates, so I think that they fit better with an AFB than anything else out there. But if you did that, then how would you stop an AFB / Asiatic hybrid, which would end up similar to a modern recurve, just not cut past centre, and with a smaller riser?

As I said, I can see why you want a new class, but I can also see problems with introducing it, and it's not just me wanting to preserve the status quo.

Daniel
 

ChakaZulu

New member
Andy specified GNAS. I may be wrong, but isn't it just NFAS that have HT and AFB classes?

My understanding was that GNAS just has ELB, trad or barebow, where barebow allows buttons etc, and trad is anything wooden with wooden arrows but no buttons etc (I paraphrase). That leaves asiatics, AFBs (for now) etc against hunter recurves that are practically target bows.

When I shot a hungarian (bow, not immigrant) I found it about as accurate as my Viper AFB and I don't have a problem with them being in the same class, but there really ought to be some recognition of the huge difference between those and hunter recurves.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
You're right about HT and AFB being NFAS classes, although the way I understand it HT and Trad are all but the same, and I have heard that GNAS is looking to introduce AFB for field, to fit in with FITA although this is just a rumour at the moment.

Daniel
 

ChakaZulu

New member
But with the introduction of AFB the asiatics get left behind. Why not call it primitve or something similar and allow AFBs, asiatics, Indian etc?
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Good question. I have heard that AFB is being considered to fit in with FITA rules. I have also heard that FITA are considering a primitive or historical bow class similar to IFAA. But most Asiatic bows will be excluded from this if they go the same way as IFAA as most of them have modern materials in their make up.
Historical would include any design that is pre 1900 and made in the traditional manner with the traditional materials. Although this is all hear-say and rumour.
Unfortunately the modern replica Asiatic bows wouldn't be allowed in either class. (As I say I think that they fit best with AFBs, as AFBs are modern versions of the ancient longbow designs and they are the modern versions of the ancient recurves)

Daniel
 

ChakaZulu

New member
Requiring traditional materials is a slippery slope, isn't it? I'm about to make my next bow with the help of some Titebond III. Is that me out of the primitive class, I wonder?

I'm not convinced that materials matter as much as design. I'd be looking at limiting it that way rather than requiring ancient materials as well.
Interesting times ahead, anyway...
 

^HUN^

New member
The modern material argument is always being used as an excuse to exclude Asiatics. The reason modern materials are being used is simply cost. In all other ways they replicate the horn/sinew bows of the steppe. You simply can't achieve the reflex design with wood alone and a traditionally made bow with horn, sinew, natural glues, birchbark will break most ordinary peoples' bank balance. Fibreglass/TRH laminate makes an affordable compromise. Furthermore, it does not provide any advantage over the real thing, quite the contrary.

I forwarded a proposal to FITA last September, regarding a Historical classification that would include all the bows so far mentioned (yes, including the Yumi). As a minority sport shouldn't we be trying to encourage more archers? Time will tell if we see this introduced but I won't be holding my breath.

btw....GNAS Traditional does not require a wooden bow, just a fixed anchor and wooden arrows.....Really traditional!
 

tony08

New member
The modern material argument is always being used as an excuse to exclude Asiatics. The reason modern materials are being used is simply cost. In all other ways they replicate the horn/sinew bows of the steppe. You simply can't achieve the reflex design with wood alone and a traditionally made bow with horn, sinew, natural glues, birchbark will break most ordinary peoples' bank balance. Fibreglass/TRH laminate makes an affordable compromise. Furthermore, it does not provide any advantage over the real thing, quite the contrary.
Well said. When I was looking to buy a bow I would have bought some kind of Asiatic Horse bow but when I asked about it amongst experienced archers I was told that I'd be wasting my time, as they are hardly allowed in competitions. If I just wanted to shoot in a corner by myself, fine. If I wanted to be part of any serious action then I'd need either a compound, recurve or longbow. I opted for the recurve, as the design is closer to the kind of bows I adore.

I hope you guys get the 'powers that be' to accord the recognition these wonderful bows deserve.
 

philhoney

New member
I am a complete novice at archery and have not entered any cometitions. I, and my family, just shoot for the fun of it. Why not introduce an open class where anything goes. The only goal being PBs. If enough people use a particular type of bow then bring in a class that includes it. Too many reglations can spoil what is, after all, a hobby. Too many rules can spoil anything, look at F1.
 

ChakaZulu

New member
Just about any bow will fit into a category somewhere. You can shoot practically anything and go for a PB. It's just a question of getting fair competition between people (or rather between bows).
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I am a complete novice at archery and have not entered any cometitions. I, and my family, just shoot for the fun of it. Why not introduce an open class where anything goes. The only goal being PBs. If enough people use a particular type of bow then bring in a class that includes it. Too many reglations can spoil what is, after all, a hobby. Too many rules can spoil anything, look at F1.
You can shoot Asiatic recurves as barebow in target archery, or Trad / HT in field. You're only problem would be that you'd be up against people with modern recurves, and thus placing yourself at a huge disadvantage. If all you want is to shoot for your own scores, then that's not a problem. If you want to be in with a chance of a medal it is.

Daniel
 
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