help required for tuning new field recurve bow/arrow set up please!

misstheboss1973

New member
Hi all.

After taking a break from archery (for several reasons) for a while I've found my mojo again and would like some advice from those in the know please? Your thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

For context, I've shot a Samick Sage recurve 'casually' and a compound (less casually) for about 6 years now. I'm not particularly interested in competing, more just enjoying shooting and trying to improve.

I've just bought a new recurve for 'field shooting' as an upgrade from the Samick which has done me well and I will keep to practice good form etc. My new bow is a Win & Win Black Elk in left hand (yes, I'm one of those!) and I ordered the 50lb limbs. The Sage is 35lb which I can shoot very easily and I fancied upping the poundage for the new one). I believe and have been told there are no major issues with my form although I am of course noticing the extra draw weight on the fingers.

This is not a review but I am very impressed with the bow in the early stages...very well made and just what I was after considering I can't afford the Black Wolf. Its very hard to find mind and I had to order mine from France! Its a 62" ILF bow with a 21" alu riser and just a plunger hole and stabiliser thread (no sight holes) which is fine as I intend to shoot 'off the shelf'. Anyway, to the issue...

After looking at the Easton spine charts and the 3rivers dynamic spine charts I settled on .500 Easton Axis Traditionals in full length so I could tune them using nock height, brace height, arrow length, point weight etc. The specs I put in are:

Bow - Generic recurve (they don't list W&W bows)
Factory weight - 50lb
factory draw length - 28"
My draw length - 28"
Center cut - 0.00 (I'll come back to this!)
String type - FF 14 strand

Shaft - Easton Axis Traditional .500
Length - 31"
Point weight - 100gr
Insert weight - 16g (HIT)
Has footed shafts? - No
Total nock weight - 9gr
Fletching type - 3x5" feathers

Personal form calibration - 0


The output info I got was this:

59.1 Dynamic spine

59.6 Dynamic spine


This puts the dynamic spines well within the 2# recommended.

Now I understand that these charts and calculators are just a rough guide, but when I came to arrow tune (bare shaft looking at nock left and right) my shafts were showing quite weak at full length (very noticeable nock right - yes, I'm left handed). To be expected. So I started cutting 1/2" off the test shaft to get it to stiffen but it just hasn't happened. I'm now down to 28.5" on the shaft with no sign of it coming closer to 'tune'. Am I doing something wrong? Would I have been better off with .400's? I'm shooting 3 under with a tab btw, the tiller bolts are screwed fully in and brace height is currently 7.5".

Going back to the center shot issue. The riser on the W&W is cut well past centre, how much I do not know as there is no info available online for this bow. They supply a small plastic gadget with the riser (I'll try to get a pic up) that sits on the alu shelf and is held in place through the plunger hole. This provides a 'domed' shelf as you'd get on a wooden trad riser and builds out the strike plate to what I'm guessing is true center shot. I'm guessing that depends on arrow diameter mind...the Axis Trads are narrower than most. Having read up about it I put a furniture pad section on the domed shelf and also a 3mm/1/8" leather piece on the strike plate to get the arrow point just to the right of the string when looking down the shaft. After getting nowhere with the shaft cutting I added more leather slivers to build out the strike plate more, but again this seemed to make little difference! Any idea where I am going wrong?

And finally a couple more points (sorry for all the info, but responses to posts such as these usually begin with requests for more information don't they!? ):

I intend to eventually shoot using string walking or a fixed crawl. I've nothing against 'instinctive' shooting but don't think I'd ever have the time to dedicate to it in order to become any good. As such I believe a long arrow would be beneficial to aiming by reducing my point on distance. Also, Ive not tried comparing bare shafts and fletched arrow groups as I have zero confidence that I can currently shoot without sights accurately enough. In other words I imagine my bare shafts and fletched arrows would land all over the place at this stage making meaningful analysis impossible.

So for it being a long one guys but I'm hoping someone could point me in the right direction with all this. I'd be very grateful for any advice you might be able to offer.

Many thanks, Paul.
 

misstheboss1973

New member
Thanks for the input geoffretired. I've measured in a number of ways. The most recent being a method I saw Clay Hayes use on youtube where you place masking tape of a shaft and film fron the side close up. For me that equates to 28.5" first few shots then dropping to 28" as I get tired with the reps. That in itself is interesting from a consistency POV!
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Ahh what I meant was where did you measure the 28".
Your 28" inches should be from the nock on the string to a point 1.75 " beyond the throat of the grip.
 

misstheboss1973

New member
Yes that's what I think I did mate. Measured from nock meets string to 1.75" forward of grip throat, which for this bow is exactly the front of the riser. Comes out 28 +- 0.5".
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
... .500 Easton Axis Traditionals
Factory weight - 50lb
factory draw length - 28"
My draw length - 28"
That sounds like the arrows are too weak to me. I was using Trads .500 at 40lb at 28.5" from my bodnik. .400 sounds much more like it. At least you only need to buy one to find out :)
 

misstheboss1973

New member
Thank you KidCurry. Yes, I have no problem switching to a stiffer .400 shaft (fortunately I only bought 3x .500 shafts). I could perhaps use the 2 uncit ones full length with the 35lb Samick.

Just odd that 3rivers calculator (and esaton chart) could potentiallybe a whole spine out, especially with the detail it requires from the user.

I've ordered a single .400 shaft (which seems a little ridiculous) and try that when it arrives.

Many thanks:)
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I know nothing about these Axis arrows, but from the easton target chart, for a 29" arrow at 50lb draw, your looking at a .400ish spine for a parallel shaft....
 

misstheboss1973

New member
I think you are probably right on that mbaker having looked again.

Trouble I've found is some charts use the columns to represent draw length, whereas others state arrow length. Seems to confuse the issue. With a 28" draw all charts I've seen point to a .500 spine. BUT, if I'm shooting that arrow at a 31" + in shaft length I'd actually require a .400 spine.

Either way, I've found the guidance given by the dynamic spine calculator to be not very useful. I'll try the .400 when it arrives and post my findings.

Many thanks for your help.
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Arrow charts are always on arrow length for me. The arrow does not know what length your drawing to, only how long it is, so its going to bend based on its length only.... As you say, if you have a 26" draw and shoot a 27" arrow, that's a totally different spine to if you were using a 31" arrow.
 

misstheboss1973

New member
Hi all.
For anyone interested I ordered and eventually recieved a single 400 shaft which tuned up fine at 30.75". Ordered another 5 which arrived yesterday.

A few things I've noticed: the 400s were less forgiving to tune. Had to really work on form/release to get consistent results...not sure why.

The axis trad shafts vary in colour quite a bit...the 500s from one online retailer were green and the 400s much browner..no biggie.

Found the trad shafts (5mm ID) far tighter when installing the HIT inserts than my FMJs...one was a real challenge to get in!

Thanks guys...now got some fletching to do!!!🙂
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
... A few things I've noticed: the 400s were less forgiving to tune. Had to really work on form/release to get consistent results...not sure why.
When I started Barebow three years ago I was shooting 34lb and arrows tuned very easy. I also found as my weight has increaed to 44lb arrows became more finicky to tune.
 
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