Lollipopping warning

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
For some time now I have been 'lollipopping' the gold to aim for no other reason than it is a convenient method of aiming. But in the last couple of weeks I have noticed that getting back to covering the gold is very difficult, in fact initially almost impossible. I think 'lollipopping' needs to come with a health warning. It may lead to gold shyness or target panic in the long run. Hopefully I have caught it in time :)
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
You may need to explain "lollipopping"!
Will do. Lollipopping is a method of barebow aiming where you place the arrow tip at the lowest point of the gold. Also I found it's a very relaxing point of aim. Problems arise when aiming off.
lollipop.jpg
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
For some time now I have been 'lollipopping' the gold to aim for no other reason than it is a convenient method of aiming. But in the last couple of weeks I have noticed that getting back to covering the gold is very difficult, in fact initially almost impossible. I think 'lollipopping' needs to come with a health warning. It may lead to gold shyness or target panic in the long run. Hopefully I have caught it in time :)
Does it actually matter, as long as you are consistent?
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Does it actually matter, as long as you are consistent?
Possibly not. But for over 30 years I've never been unable to settle on the centre of the gold in any discipline. And at short distance, where aiming off is not needed it's fine. But over 50m where aiming off is required sometime, it's much harder to get a reliable aim point somewhere down in the red at 4 o'clock. I don't want to continue to find out it develops into full blown target panic :)
 
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Geophys2

Active member
AIUK Saviour
The problem with lollipopping is that the angular difference between the bottom of the gold and the centre changes with different distances. Jake Kaminski did a decent video on the aiming choices.

 

Geophys2

Active member
AIUK Saviour
In my former life I was a GB target rifle and pistol shooter and coach, when shooting target pistol aiming is always of the lollipop variety, in fact lower than that, known as 'area aiming' leaving a gap below the target. This is so that you re not distracted from sight alignment, and tempted to shoot when the sight is perfectly placed on the target. Errors in aligning the pistol, or rifle front and rear sights are radial, so a small error at the origin becomes a far greater error on the target, whereas error in placement on the target are parallel errors so a 5cm error in placement will lead to the same 5cm error in impact point. .22 Olympic Free Pistol shooting at 50m has a ten ring of 5cm in diameter, so small errors in sight alignment are critical.

ISSF Free Pistol

From an archer's point of view the anchor (and string walk, head position etc) are the equivalent of the rear sight and the bow sight or arrow point are the front sight, so consistent form and alignment are the more critical factor as they are radial errors, whereas placement of the sight or arrow point on the target are parallel errors. Why do you think blank bale practice is so important at the top level.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
That just about covers it... I also reckon it makes aiming off more difficult ... but like any aiming form, you get used to it If you persist. (Not that I do...well not deliberately anyway...)

Stretch
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
From an archer's point of view the anchor (and string walk, head position etc) are the equivalent of the rear sight and the bow sight or arrow point are the front sight, so consistent form and alignment are the more critical factor as they are radial errors, whereas placement of the sight or arrow point on the target are parallel errors. Why do you think blank bale practice is so important at the top level.
Yes, but my criticism of lollipopping for archery is that it has introduced an obstacle to my aim that was never there before. Practicing good form has never created any issues in the past, therefore lollipopping goes into my archery bad form box because it has introduced limitations in my form, not because it is, in itself, a poor form of aiming as it works very well :)
I found the same thing with punching the release on compound. It worked very well for me for a long time, but it also created limitations to my release process, so in my bad form box it went :)
 

Geophys2

Active member
AIUK Saviour
Yes, but my criticism of lollipopping for archery is that it has introduced an obstacle to my aim that was never there before. Practicing good form has never created any issues in the past, therefore lollipopping goes into my archery bad form box because it has introduced limitations in my form, not because it is, in itself, a poor form of aiming as it works very well :)
I found the same thing with punching the release on compound. It worked very well for me for a long time, but it also created limitations to my release process, so in my bad form box it went :)
Oh, I quite agree, I don't like lollipopping with a bow, much preferring a centre aim, I was simply trying to point out the difference between a radial and parallel error in any projectile based system. I centre aim, but accept that I will have a degree of wandering in the gold, so concentrate on solid form and a smooth release, hopefully when the wandering is at its minimum.
 

Hawkmoon

Member
The problem with lollipopping is that the angular difference between the bottom of the gold and the centre changes with different distances. Jake Kaminski did a decent video on the aiming choices.

I lolly pop the gold from 18m to 90m and it does not change, Jake says a lot of stuff.........
 

Hawkmoon

Member
The advantage of Lollipoping is once the gold get smaller than the pile of your arrow you cannot centre properly if you aim on the gold, I lollipop but the top of my pile is cresting into the gold.
 

Hawkmoon

Member
The problem with lollipopping is that the angular difference between the bottom of the gold and the centre changes with different distances. Jake Kaminski did a decent video on the aiming choices.

It's not a problem, you set your crawl so that when you aim at that point the arrow hits the gold at that distance, what you really have to watch out for is shooting the same distance on different sized faces. When shooting a Portsmouth or WA18 the distance is so close it makes no difference but if you lollipop on the 40cm face you are aiming 2cm below the centre of the gold and on the 60cm it is 3cm, this does not sound a lot but it is enough to keep you out of the ten on the 60cm face if you do not adjust.
 
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