Mass shooting with bow...

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Kerf

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Funny how everyone would be scathing about crossbows in the past ... but now it's a compound, no one cares what sort of bow it is? :unsure:
Del
Was it a compound bow? I haven’t seen any reports which identified the type of bow.
 

Timid Toad

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Yes, identified by an eyewitness who went on camera who is an archer. However, it seems the criminal only injured with the bow, the people who died were knifed. Tiny bit immaterial, of course, but that's where it is.
 

4d4m

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There's a great deal of prejudice against crossbows. Not normally expressed, but just wait until someone shows up with one...
A few members of our club have crossbows, for informal shooting. In fact the club is trialling a couple of different lowish poundage pistol crossbows as something else to offer, to keep people interested if injured or even just bored, or enable disabled people to shoot. However it’s interesting that one of the archers, although not objecting to them, refused to have a shot and seemed to have a visceral aversion to them. That is despite them having about a fifth of the power of their recurve bow.
 

Timid Toad

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That's interesting. Has AGB changed it's rules on pistol crossbows, as when we looked at them, they were expressly forbidden?
 

Senlac

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Trivia (apologies) re medieval crossbows: despite their enormous draw weight, their range was much the same as longbows? I guess this was due to the bolt’s weight. So why were they so prevalent in medieval times? Accuracy?
 

Ian

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Possibly accuracy but it`s most important asset was that you did not need years and years of training and experience to be able to use one in battle.
 

dvd8n

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Trivia (apologies) re medieval crossbows: despite their enormous draw weight, their range was much the same as longbows? I guess this was due to the bolt’s weight. So why were they so prevalent in medieval times? Accuracy?
Crossbows usually have a much shorter draw length (10"-20") than longbows so even though the draw weight is higher it's acting over a shorter distance so that higher draw weight doesn't necessarily result in more energy in the system.

But they have the advantage that a user can become competent much, much faster than with a longbow.
 

Rik

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But of course, the rate of fire of a longbow is way higher than a crossbow, if you have a force which can use them. Mechanically simpler/cheaper as well.
 

4d4m

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Crossbows usually have a much shorter draw length (10"-20") than longbows so even though the draw weight is higher it's acting over a shorter distance so that higher draw weight doesn't necessarily result in more energy in the system.

But they have the advantage that a user can become competent much, much faster than with a longbow.
It's actually more like 6" or less in the big draw weight mediaeval European crossbows. The steel prods just couldn't be trusted bending any further and when you have (in some cases) half a ton of draw force pent up, it's not good if one lets go!

As said the main advantage is training; you can equip a decent force quite quickly. There was little use of crossbowmen in England for field armies but they were standard issue in castle armouries. For castle defence or repelling boarders on ship, you can have one crossbowman at a loophole, with several bows and people to span them, he can keep up a decent rate of "fire". Also, a longbowman needs a fair bit of space to shoot and often is fairly exposed at the moment of shooting. It wouldn't be easy to shoot well through those castle arrow slots.
 

dvd8n

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Lionel Shriver's book, "We Need to Talk About Kevin", deals with a school mass shooting in a gym by a boy with a bow.

Setting aside the fact that it's one of my least favourite books ever (and I've had to read some absolute stinkers for my book group) it's interesting for the fact that Shriver had Kevin use a crossbow in the book, but in the film it was deliberately changed to a recurve.

Seemingly the film's director wanted to visually link Kevin to Robin Hood (????) whereas Shriver said that the crossbow was better because it had "much more lethal velocity".

Make of that what you will. Personally I think that it just illustrates the general public's ignorance.
 

Kernowlad

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Yup. It is now being reported that tge deaths were stabbing, not arrows Norway attack victims stabbed not shot with arrows, say police
Too late I reckon. The world thinks it was all bow related and I suspect laws will tighten.
I think I said before I use an air rifle a fair bit - it's within the 12lbs-ft limit and can take out a rabbit at about 30 yards. I have no interest in hunting but that's it.
My compound with the heavier XX75s? A bear or an elk. Around 120lbs-ft of energy at it leaves the bow. Still nowhere near that of some powder guns but it's still a lot.
I was amazed when I got it how little restrictions there were. Literally none. More restrictions buying a lumo orange plastic pellet firing BB gun!
 

Stretch

Active member
We have to hope against licensing because it becomes a barrier to the sport. Not one that puts off existing participants but costly enough to deter anyone who is in doubt. The sport will go into decline.

Health restrictions also mean that people who have had any mental health problems (off with stress etc upwards) get denied the license. Airweapons are licensed in Scotland and it has seen people who benefited from the sport being unable to participate. While you’d think they apply some circumstantial evidence … they don’t. You end up with blanket rules. (And before anyone gets snarky, yes I did get my license.)

I do see how some form of of regulation makes sense (Registered owner type stuff) but full on licensing is detrimental and brings no value as there are so many more easily deployed lethal weapons available from B&Q.

Having said that… I don’t think this event, tragic as it might be, will result in any UK legislation.

Stretch
 

chrisgas

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Too late I reckon. The world thinks it was all bow related and I suspect laws will tighten.
I think I said before I use an air rifle a fair bit - it's within the 12lbs-ft limit and can take out a rabbit at about 30 yards. I have no interest in hunting but that's it.
My compound with the heavier XX75s? A bear or an elk. Around 120lbs-ft of energy at it leaves the bow. Still nowhere near that of some powder guns but it's still a lot.
I was amazed when I got it how little restrictions there were. Literally none. More restrictions buying a lumo orange plastic pellet firing BB gun!
I believe that there has been around one death a year since 2017, through being shot with a crossbow in Scotland. So if nothing has been done to date, why would this incident change anything?
 

KidCurry

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I believe that there has been around one death a year since 2017, through being shot with a crossbow in Scotland. So if nothing has been done to date, why would this incident change anything?
I doubt anything will change in the UK. I think, for the most part, it's already been forgotten about.
 

little-else

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It's actually more like 6" or less in the big draw weight mediaeval European crossbows. The steel prods just couldn't be trusted bending any further and when you have (in some cases) half a ton of draw force pent up, it's not good if one lets go!

As said the main advantage is training; you can equip a decent force quite quickly. There was little use of crossbowmen in England for field armies but they were standard issue in castle armouries. For castle defence or repelling boarders on ship, you can have one crossbowman at a loophole, with several bows and people to span them, he can keep up a decent rate of "fire". Also, a longbowman needs a fair bit of space to shoot and often is fairly exposed at the moment of shooting. It wouldn't be easy to shoot well through those castle arrow slots.
The crossbow was developed as a defensive weapon so you can shoot it from behind cover etc where maneouverability is an issue. It has alreday been mentioned that the mechanicla davanteges of stirrups etc to load means yu dont need skill or dtrength
 
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