Compound Bow Mike Schloesser - punches the release aid?

PLEASE HELP TO FUND ARCHERY INTERCHANGE

chemistry

Member
Far be it from me to criticise his technique (given the results it delivers!), but watching this recent footage I couldn't help but notice that Mike Schloesser seems to punch the heck out of his release aid on every shot. Looks to me like his thumb hovers over the barrel/trigger, gradually 'approaches' it in a series of little jerks, and then as soon as he actually touches it - BAM - he depresses (punches?) it fully and the shot is gone.

You can see it very clearly here (at 1:40, for example): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBbpg6FJlN0

Am I right? does he always shoot like this?

chemistry
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I would say he is punching the trigger in that he deliberately hits the trigger.
Some might call it "command shooting " I think.
If I remember correctly a punch will happen as the sight reaches the gold. A sort of "NOW!" style.
A command archer will have the sight already on the gold and will activate the trigger when the time is right within a short time span.
The surprise ones seem to happen within a period of time while the sight is in the right place, but the exact time is not known, though they know more or less when it will happen.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
Thanks for the link Chemistry.

As long as your mental game is sorted you can do pretty much what ever you like. That said I still prefer Peter Elzinga's release :)
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
he's been having "issues" in medal matches. If you saw him at Nimes or Lancaster you'd of seen him very much struggling, they talked about it in the latest Easton Target Archery podcast. He's fine during qualification, cruises through the early elimination matches, then at the final...

Take the World Cup last weekend, 717 qually, 149, 149, 148, 150 through the matches, and then a 139 in the gold medal match!!
 

chemistry

Member
geoffretired - I hear what you are saying, but would expect that a 'command shooting' style would involve calm placement of thumb on trigger, followed by a (deliberate) final squeeze, not all the pre-shot twitching Mike does before actually making contact with the barrel and triggering the shot.

bimble - interesting data, thanks. Maybe he gets 'the yips' and starts punching. I'll look at some of his other matches and see if there is a difference in his shooting style during 'lesser' matches/rounds.

Thanks for the replies all; interesting stuff I think :poulies:
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
bimble - interesting data, thanks. Maybe he gets 'the yips' and starts punching. I'll look at some of his other matches and see if there is a difference in his shooting style during 'lesser' matches/rounds.
as earlier matches are usually not shown it might be a better idea to look at matches from 2015 and earlier. Like this match between Peineau and Schlosser last year.
[video=youtube;BumwSeRHwBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BumwSeRHwBE[/video]
 

chemistry

Member
bimble, great stuff, thanks. Looking at 2:44 in that video, his approach to and contact with the release aid barrel looks MUCH smoother. No jerks before settling onto the trigger. Can't tell if it's then surprise release (back tension) or command release, but it doesn't look punched.
 

chemistry

Member
KidCurry, it would certainly appear that there are some mental game issues at play. Comparing the two videos - before/after - I think the difference is quite striking, particularly when viewed in light of the score trends bimble pointed out.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
It is also possible that he just had a bad day of course.
at every finals match he's shot in since the start of the indoor season?? I guess that's sort of possible...

And who noted that he wasn't shooting his Target 4 trigger release in the Shanghai final, but a hinge?? I know he says he practices with a hinge, but shoots comps with the trigger, but I think that is the first time I've ever seen him shooting with something other than the T4! But a quote from the WA webpage shows that he admits that he is suffering from finals nerves.

It turned out he was using a different release to the one he shot his world record score with on Thursday. He had switched from a trigger release to a back tension release to work on problems with nerves.

“I’ve been struggling a bit lately in finals, I’ve been trying something new, but it wasn’t the way to solve it. I think I know which way I need to go now,” he said.

A ‘hinge’ back tension release is often used by archers during matches to help with proper execution under pressure. Any issues, though, can show up if it doesn’t go to plan.

“The eights… at first I could imagine it was like the wind blowing them over, but some just weren’t good shots. I can’t really explain it,” said Mike.
 

chemistry

Member
bimble,

I listened to that Easton Target Archery podcast you mentioned, and you are exactly right - they discuss Mike having issues anticipating (for which I read, punching...) the shot and as a result, him having to switch from a trigger (Target 4) in early rounds to a hinge release for the final. Clearly there's an issue there.

Perhaps he's human after all and the pressure/expectation associated with being Mr Perfect has got to him a bit.

For my part, I'm pleased that I noticed this independently whilst watching the YouTube video in my original post - it gives me some comfort that at least I can spot form flaws now and again!

It will be interesting to see where Mike goes from here and whether he switches to a hinge as his main release going forward.

chemistry
 

napolienne

Active member
Fonz Awardee
I agree - if you wanted to give someone the yips I couldn't think of any better way than calling them "Mr Perfect"!
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
bimble,

I listened to that Easton Target Archery podcast you mentioned, and you are exactly right - they discuss Mike having issues anticipating (for which I read, punching...) the shot and as a result, him having to switch from a trigger (Target 4) in early rounds to a hinge release for the final. Clearly there's an issue there.

Perhaps he's human after all and the pressure/expectation associated with being Mr Perfect has got to him a bit.

For my part, I'm pleased that I noticed this independently whilst watching the YouTube video in my original post - it gives me some comfort that at least I can spot form flaws now and again!

It will be interesting to see where Mike goes from here and whether he switches to a hinge as his main release going forward.

chemistry
Anticipating is just that ,expecting some thing to happen and it does not. You trigger your release ( By back tension or on command.) before you have stabalised your aim on the anticipation that it will stabalise for instance.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Anticipation can be a silent killer. It can go undetected in its subtle forms.
Jerry, you say they expect something to happen and it doesn't, and I think you are right. I think there is another sort, too, where you expect something to happen and act in anticipation of what is to come. It is almost as if "what is to come" is a bit unpleasant so they get in first to lessen the blow.
As an example;the first time a real surprise release happens with a release aid, can make you feel your arms are flying off. That can be such a shock, that it is easy to think it is wrong so we learn how to lessen the shock by anticipating and softening the effect.
To my way of thinking, knowing what is coming at the release, causes several ways to anticipate it. Some want to watch the arrow fly, so they look away, to catch the arrow at the start of its flight. They need to look away a bit early or they will miss it.
Some move the bow arm out of the way to get a better view, they move the bow arm just as the release is about to happen, in order to see things from the start. Almost all the actions change what would normally happen by actively doing something else just before the release. Dropping the bow arm or forward loose, for example. Almost all the actions require the back tension to be reduced/ or changed in some way, to the detriment of the shot process.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
You are so right geoff,the first time I got a real supprise release everthing went all over the place . I did not like it at all so I got rid of the suprise. Some times the loose goes off by itself during the final stages but it does not matter because I want it happen any way.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think this is not only a very interesting topic, but an important one, too. Getting the release wrong, can really damage the end result. When I say "wrong" I don't mean doing it your own way and the other way is right. By wrong I mean not the way you have planned it to happen; so we would say we did it wrong ourselves.
I see what you mean about the release going off by itself, but that's ok because you wanted it to happen then.Sometimes I have releases that go off by themselves, but I am not always ready for them, so it is a mistake; or wrong. I hear clicker shooters saying their shot went off too soon.I think they are saying "too soon" because they weren't ready yet. They had something else they wanted to do first.
When I had TP, every shot went off too soon. I was never ready! I was still on the red or blue and wanted to get on the gold first.Those shots were going off by themselves; and it was not OK.heehee.
I think some archers want the release to happen by itself, but only if things are in place first. They go off by themselves because they are managing other parts of the shot, like keeping the draw tension on.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
but there is surprise, and total surprise. I've had to switch to a resistance activated release recently, and on the whole, I know roughly when it's going to go off (unless I've not got my front shoulder in the right position... in that case it wont!). However, a couple of times it's gone off as soon as I've disengaged the safety. Not fun, and makes you very wary on that next shot.

We talk about shooting thousands of shoots, getting into a routine and yet we talk about a "surprise" shot. It's not a total surprise, you know you're about there, on the cusp of it firing.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Bimble, yes, I agree with that. There are degrees of surprise.
I think we are saying the same things. A good surprise happens at the right time. OR perhaps it is better to say at A time that is good. Bad ones happen too soon before other things have been completed, or set up correctly.
I suppose that when we know it is going to happen, we are better prepared, properly prepared. I know that I have had to work on my release for a few years.The time was sometimes unwisely spent and I ended up having to retrace my steps or start again. But despite the delays, I think the surprise is still there, just less of a heart stopping shock.We start to relax, in a way. NOT lose back tension, but reach a stage where it is no longer a worry or unpleasant shock.
In a way it's like getting used to sirens. When we have heard them so often, we almost ignore them. Sometimes don't fully realise we can hear it.
One of the hazards with getting used to things happening on automatic is that we sometimes fail to notice the better ones from the not so good.
 
Top