Compound Bow Mike Schloesser - punches the release aid?

PLEASE HELP TO FUND ARCHERY INTERCHANGE

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
I think it depends on how your brain is wired up. I thought a hinge or thumb release would be perfect for me; turns out it wasn’t at all and caused me problems that lasted years.
My brain needs to tell my finger exactly when to pull a trigger; it’s the same when I’m shooting my rifle.
I think it was also a muscle/tendon thing. Gripping the release and also setting off the trigger just didn’t work for me. I need that muscle isolation you get in a wrist release; your arm/shoulder does the pulling, your finger does the releasing.
I suspect it was a security thing too; hand held releases just never felt safe enough to me.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Matt, I'm not sure it is the way the brain is wired up, though it may be related to the way different people approach new ideas or new things that challenge/interest us.
A nervous approach... a confident approach... an impatient approach... a carefully considered approach.... a well informed approach.
I have no real idea which( if any) of those was the one you used.
If I remember, though, it did seem to me that there were several different archers offering you different advice and different options. My thoughts at that time were that you might have been bombarded with ideas; to the point where each type of release aid could have been approached in a less than ideal way. There is no blame on anyone in my thoughts; I am stating what I believe to be facts that could have made your start into release aid use, less than a smooth ride.
The release aids you have tried are ones I have tried, too. I remember feeling all sorts of fear with some of them... messing me up at the time. The hinge was so frightening I decided I would never touch one ever again.
Now, I have two! They can be superb to use. They taught me how to stay calm.... hard to believe really; isn't it?
It is worth mentioning at the same time, that some are much easier to use. A finger trigger is natural if you ever played with toy guns as a child or air weapons when older.
Other types all need to be given a fair amount of time; and I would say a bit more explanation of what to expect when you first use one. For many archers a thumb or hinge will give them their first surprise release. Shock release, even. That is often a real put off. The archers feel the surprise is wrong and they want something very different.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
My initial reason for change was after my fairly cheap wrist release appeared to stretch on a Hereford round. I started with my hand tucked under my jawbone, by the end of it it was behind my head!
So I wanted something more solid which also had the hook much closer to the D-loop. The slightly annoying thing was my first end with the thumb release was actually pretty good; I can’t remember exactly what the score was but it wasn’t bad at all. Then it completely fell apart and I never regained it and threw up multiple doubts that have still not completely disappeared even though I’ve not had an accidental release in almost two years.
Now the only issue (well main one) is still that inconsistent draw; sometimes it’s fairly “easy” other times it’s hard work. I always get there (another worry was a period of having the arrow bounce off the rest; it took a while to realise that the arrows almost “locks” itself down part a certain stage of the draw) But I suspect that is to do with both a lifelong shoulder injury with a dash of technique error making the tiniest deviation result in that random draw. I thought it was the bow for ages but eliminated that theory some time ago.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, I remember your issue with the strap. Changing the strap would have been worth a try.
I also remember the arrows falling off the rest( I guess many archers suffer from that.) Changing to a wider blade or,,, if required... reducing draw weight. A struggle to draw the bow causes the bounces that dislodge the arrow. The struggle is also not good for all sorts of reasons. Some archers find they have to manipulate their body into a special posture to get over that first uphill stage of the draw. A small reduction in draw weight often allows a totally smooth draw and a relaxation from start to finish. It also allows some slack in the system for when the body isn't in peak condition.
I know you will have read all this before, but sometimes looking at things again, when there are no pressures to get in the way; is well worth the time.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, I remember your issue with the strap. Changing the strap would have been worth a try.
I also remember the arrows falling off the rest( I guess many archers suffer from that.) Changing to a wider blade or,,, if required... reducing draw weight. A struggle to draw the bow causes the bounces that dislodge the arrow. The struggle is also not good for all sorts of reasons. Some archers find they have to manipulate their body into a special posture to get over that first uphill stage of the draw. A small reduction in draw weight often allows a totally smooth draw and a relaxation from start to finish. It also allows some slack in the system for when the body isn't in peak condition.
I know you will have read all this before, but sometimes looking at things again, when there are no pressures to get in the way; is well worth the time.
Sadly I’m at the bottom of my draw weight scale for my bow and most of the time the draw is fine; I just get the occasional tricky one. I just keep pulling and always get there (rest wobbles have gone but just another doubt to enter my anxious brain!) but I sub consciously ask myself before every draw “will this be a hard one or an easy one?!” And by easy, I mean really easy. If it was on a press up scale, easy is the first few, a hard one is past 40; hard work but still totally doable.

Although doing very little archery, I’m always swimming, surfing, doing weights, running etc to keep strong and in shape. I know it’s not the same but it helps.

I think it’s just something to live with. I’ve gone down so many wrong alleys, I am keen to stay in my relatively comfortable place with archery!
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, indeed the archery has to be your archery. I am just an interested bystander, having a bit of a chat with a mate.
Without changing anything very much, you could make your archery more to your liking; just by not questioning your draw. Asking yourself is a bit like doubting yourself. Just draw till you reach your posture at full draw. When you get on a bike I doubt you ask yourself whether or not you will fall off before you move off.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, indeed the archery has to be your archery. I am just an interested bystander, having a bit of a chat with a mate.
Without changing anything very much, you could make your archery more to your liking; just by not questioning your draw. Asking yourself is a bit like doubting yourself. Just draw till you reach your posture at full draw. When you get on a bike I doubt you ask yourself whether or not you will fall off before you move off.
Very true and I’d probably fall off if I did!
I’ve always been an overthinker except in surfing when I magically seem to switch off.
All discussion is welcomed Geoff; as you say, it’s chat between friends and maybe sitting in my little comfort box isn’t healthy but it sort of feels okay for now. The best medicine always seems to be more shooting.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Al Henderson's book "Understanding Winning Archery" is well worth reading. He writes as he speaks, it seems to me, as I felt he was my favourite uncle having a chat.
He dots around the book some nice little quotes that are worth remembering. My favourite is this; "Every problem is an opportunity for improvement". Whenever I have felt down about my archery, one thing always gets me thinking positively again. The one thing is ... having someone suggest a better option for me to try. If I sit in my comfort box, I will have to put up with the effects that has on my shooting. For me, that would mean keeping the problems. I'd get no fun from that. heehee. Just getting a tiny bit better, makes me feel a big bit happier. Good value. I reckon.
 

Sinbad

Member
Looks like you caught it really early. I wonder how many people just try and push through it hoping it will go away or just poor form, when in reality it is just being reinforced. I wonder if it's possible to produce an early warning signs list, or maybe AGB look at an article on spotting early warning signs of TP.
Still not perfect, but definitely on the right road. I read a lot about how to over come it, some say keep going at a short distance with a target, but i knew that wasn't going to work, and as i can hit small items without an issue, it seemed the best way to go, so i worked on breathing and release by talking through the full shot in my head. I want to continue doing it through each shot when doing a round.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I think it depends on how your brain is wired up. I thought a hinge or thumb release would be perfect for me; turns out it wasn’t at all and caused me problems that lasted years.
My brain needs to tell my finger exactly when to pull a trigger; it’s the same when I’m shooting my rifle.
I think it was also a muscle/tendon thing. Gripping the release and also setting off the trigger just didn’t work for me. I need that muscle isolation you get in a wrist release; your arm/shoulder does the pulling, your finger does the releasing.
I suspect it was a security thing too; hand held releases just never felt safe enough to me.
I am begining to se a trend , almost all the command shooters I know of have been or are rifle shooters
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Just shot some garden arrows; I’ve emailed Merlin to see if it’s possible to change the cams to the lower DW version. I’m drawing straight and level but it’s slow. The Origin lets off very late; almost at the very end of the draw cycle and it seems to “get” me in that last couple of inches. Probably because of a repeated shoulder injury (40+ dislocations over the years) I manage it but it’s not particularly pleasant. And yep it’s wound down to its lowest setting.
Annoyingly once drawn, all is fine and they went more or less where I wanted them to go. My Hoyt Ignite let off much earlier and TBH I still miss that bow. It was just more friendly to use.

I don’t think the DW needs to be much lower; maybe a few pounds less, but I’m on the lowest weight so can’t drop it any more..
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I lowered the draw weight on my bow after a long absence from shooting. Cables a little longer than the standard ones took off about 15 lbs. All that really does is allow the limbs to unbend a bit compared to standard. That is what happens to the limbs when the fixing bolts are wound out.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Just shot some garden arrows; I’ve emailed Merlin to see if it’s possible to change the cams to the lower DW version. I’m drawing straight and level but it’s slow. The Origin lets off very late; almost at the very end of the draw cycle and it seems to “get” me in that last couple of inches. Probably because of a repeated shoulder injury (40+ dislocations over the years) I manage it but it’s not particularly pleasant. And yep it’s wound down to its lowest setting.
Annoyingly once drawn, all is fine and they went more or less where I wanted them to go. My Hoyt Ignite let off much earlier and TBH I still miss that bow. It was just more friendly to use.

I don’t think the DW needs to be much lower; maybe a few pounds less, but I’m on the lowest weight so can’t drop it any more..
tighten the up til they bottom out then back them off by 7 full turns. Then change the letoff to 80% and see if that helps.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
tighten the up til they bottom out then back them off by 7 full turns. Then change the letoff to 80% and see if that helps.
Any idea how i change the let off? I know you can fine tune with the shaped cam bolts (string stops) but the differences are minimal. More/earlier let off would really sort it.
I’ve also just found a bungee cord in the garage; it’s EXACTLY the right length and tension to wrap around the riser and use as a crude bow trainer. So I’ll also do this and try and strengthen those muscles up.
The draw weight bolts are backed off as far as they’ll go (7 turns).
 
Last edited:

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Changing let off with string stops etc, really just stops the last part of the draw from happening. so your draw will be shorter, making let off appear to start nearer full draw than before and the holding weight will remain a bit higher.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Changing let off with string stops etc, really just stops the last part of the draw from happening. so your draw will be shorter, making let off appear to start nearer full draw than before and the holding weight will remain a bit higher.
You can fine tune the wall hardness slightly by moving the string stops but the effects are pretty marginal. I can hardly notice any difference and I’ve tried all the settings!
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Ahhhhh! different string stops from the ones I was thinking of. I think the ones you have might contact the cables at different distances from the pivot point of the cam. I was thinking of the ones that are on the outer rim of the cam. Change them from one hole to another and it shortens/lengthens the draw.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks for the details, It is as I suspected, the leverage of the cam on the cable is changed, making it easier to pull a bit further and feel softer as a result.
I think my cables were about 0.5 inches longer than standard to reduce draw weight by a very obvious amount.
 
Top