New - Archery GB Annualized Renewals

PLEASE HELP TO FUND ARCHERY INTERCHANGE

Geophys2

Active member
AIUK Saviour
I think it should be remembered as well that just because AGB have someone down as nominating themselves as a member of a club doesn't actually make them a member of that club. Club membership is not at the gift of AGB, but down to the individual club's constitution. Unless someone meets the constitutional and membership requirements of a club, then they are not a member and have no right of access or use of a club's facilities or of its name. Club secretaries would be fully entitled to tell AGB that Mr 'A' has failed to meet the club's requirements and is not a member of the club, 10 day deadline or not.

AGB would then have to decide if Mr 'A' fulfilled its requirements for AGB membership, or if they would then have to pay the extra £8 to be a Direct Member as they have no club affiliation. Remember AGB has no right to tell clubs who is and who isn't a member of their club.

I don't think AGB have any evil intent in what they have done, it's just that they have had a total failure to think the ramifications through. More total cock-up than conspiracy.
 

CJ2014

Member
I don't think AGB have any evil intent in what they have done, it's just that they have had a total failure to think the ramifications through. More total cock-up than conspiracy.

I totally agree, it is not just a club issue. GWAS has said that they will expect two Regional fees for these bespoke renewals, but the second fee rate of these will not have currently been agreed upon. The whole of UK Archery's administration is based around the current 1st October renewal, not annualized renewals.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I don't think AGB have any evil intent in what they have done, it's just that they have had a total failure to think the ramifications through. More total cock-up than conspiracy.

I totally agree, it is not just a club issue. GWAS has said that they will expect two Regional fees for these bespoke renewals, but the second fee rate of these will not have currently been agreed upon. The whole of UK Archery's administration is based around the current 1st October renewal, not annualized renewals.
I agree. I think that they've tried to go the right thing but not thought it through on an administrative level beyond themselves.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
dvd8n

I think you may have missed DWAA's primary concern, not the hit as you call it but the administrative nightmare that is being brought upon Club, County, and Regional Affiliations Officers throughout the year.

There is also the issue surrounding bespoke renewals in relation to who is allowed to shoot either in tournaments or clubs and the difficulty of having variable renewals, will become an issue in spring 2022. As a club, we change all passwords and keys each October so we can manage members and more importantly ex-members.

With regards to annualized memberships, why are they only being offered to 'late' renewers, using a pro-rata system for those who lapsed prior to September 2019. Why not let them have annualized memberships as well and reduce the number of membership variables?
I get what you are saying. I was thinking about the unfair fee breaks that some would be getting.

But yes, they have created an administrative nightmare too. I acknowledge that.
 

Spike95609

New member
Our club officers have discussed it and we will be objecting to all of this. Some of you may not know this but in 2012 AGB came up with a few "modernisation" proposals which would have seen all club members personally paying their affiliation fees direct to AGB rather than to the club, to be renewed at the time of year when they joined or 12 months on from when they decided to renew. They even floated the idea that they could also pay their club fees to AGB if the club agreed, and these would be distributed back to the club - an absolute no to that one, we couldn't place control of our income into the hands of a third party. The result of this would be that it would become utterly impossible for clubs, especially large ones who can shoot all the time, to know which of their members were insured and which were not. It would have been complete and utter chaos, so these proposals were rubbished by all and sundry and quietly disappeared. Or not as it seems because these new proposals are trying to regurgitate a part of it and I have no doubt whatsoever that this should be treated as a trial period which will be expanded on in the future so that all of the above becomes a reality.

If those renewing as of 2nd April had to pay again in September so that all our members are brought back into line, this wouldn't be a problem for us. But it seems that if we had one lapsed member renews in April, another two in May, three in June etc, then their renewals would then be set at those times forever. The same would presumably apply to new members from beginners courses, and in three or four years from now I imagine the system would be utterly unmanageable. They propose that we should refer to the membership database to know who has paid, but this would need to be constantly checked as it could potentially be changing all the time, and in any case there's only two people in the club who have access to it and obviously they're not going to be there all the time. As a club official I am more worried about this proposal because it can't be stopped unless AGB see sense and back down.

I'm not personally bothered about the idea of them contacting former members and offering them the chance to rejoin because I think they will soon realise that they are breaking GDPR in the process - the people are no longer members and should not be contacted, in fact it's debatable why they still hold their contact details. We've also decided that anyone who tries to "join" the club by this route will be rejected immediately because our constitution requires members to apply to us first, we consider that at a general meeting, and if they're accepted we then forward their fees to AGB etc. The secretary does not have the power to personally accept whoever they like. And if the secretary was on holiday at the time and missed someone who was "accepted" because no response was given, they wouldn't be regarded as a member because they haven't applied to join or paid any fees. Their e-card might well have our club's name on it but that doesn't make it a fact.

I cannot dismiss this as AGB just trying to help people through these difficult times because this is not a new idea. They know precisely what they're doing and have been told loud and clear before now why this cannot work. I hope enough clubs will object to this so that it's quietly dropped again. At least for now.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
The issue with members seems odd as an archer has to apply and pay membership fees to join a club, Clubs can insist that this is the only route to membership and all fees to be paid through them might even see the rise of private clubs rather than as most are today public in terms of who can join. Surely if somebody nominates a club when joining directly with AGB that is all it is a nomination, in the same way that I nominate my county and region at the time of renewal but I have to pay the fee direct - not sure what checks are made between them is though.
 

Sinbad

Member
Is this not just a way for AGB to get cash coming into them direct asap? I know if i was following that route of paying them and picking a club, i would be asking for my money back if the club then said "Sorry, but we are rejecting you" I would not be hanging around for weeks or even months to find out if the club would accept me at a later date.
 

Kerf

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Our club officers have discussed it and we will be objecting to all of this. Some of you may not know this but in 2012 AGB came up with a few "modernisation" proposals which would have seen all club members personally paying their affiliation fees direct to AGB rather than to the club, to be renewed at the time of year when they joined or 12 months on from when they decided to renew. They even floated the idea that they could also pay their club fees to AGB if the club agreed, and these would be distributed back to the club - an absolute no to that one, we couldn't place control of our income into the hands of a third party. The result of this would be that it would become utterly impossible for clubs, especially large ones who can shoot all the time, to know which of their members were insured and which were not. It would have been complete and utter chaos, so these proposals were rubbished by all and sundry and quietly disappeared. Or not as it seems because these new proposals are trying to regurgitate a part of it and I have no doubt whatsoever that this should be treated as a trial period which will be expanded on in the future so that all of the above becomes a reality.

If those renewing as of 2nd April had to pay again in September so that all our members are brought back into line, this wouldn't be a problem for us. But it seems that if we had one lapsed member renews in April, another two in May, three in June etc, then their renewals would then be set at those times forever. The same would presumably apply to new members from beginners courses, and in three or four years from now I imagine the system would be utterly unmanageable. They propose that we should refer to the membership database to know who has paid, but this would need to be constantly checked as it could potentially be changing all the time, and in any case there's only two people in the club who have access to it and obviously they're not going to be there all the time. As a club official I am more worried about this proposal because it can't be stopped unless AGB see sense and back down.

I'm not personally bothered about the idea of them contacting former members and offering them the chance to rejoin because I think they will soon realise that they are breaking GDPR in the process - the people are no longer members and should not be contacted, in fact it's debatable why they still hold their contact details. We've also decided that anyone who tries to "join" the club by this route will be rejected immediately because our constitution requires members to apply to us first, we consider that at a general meeting, and if they're accepted we then forward their fees to AGB etc. The secretary does not have the power to personally accept whoever they like. And if the secretary was on holiday at the time and missed someone who was "accepted" because no response was given, they wouldn't be regarded as a member because they haven't applied to join or paid any fees. Their e-card might well have our club's name on it but that doesn't make it a fact.

I cannot dismiss this as AGB just trying to help people through these difficult times because this is not a new idea. They know precisely what they're doing and have been told loud and clear before now why this cannot work. I hope enough clubs will object to this so that it's quietly dropped again. At least for now.
I totally agree with all you say. I have been approached to see if I would become secretary of my club but having seen AGB’s proposals I wouldn’t touch the job with a barge pole. Keeping up to date on individual member’s fees would be a logistical nightmare as would trying to arrange committee meetings within ten days every time a person had nominated us as their club. Then there is the added issues of club and county and regional fees.
I wonder how many other potential secretaries will have second thoughts and how many existing secretaries/membership secretaries will have breakdowns as a result of this I’ll thought out idea? It seems to me this is a back door method for AGB to get more direct cash payments (to fund their horrendously expensive HQ, staff costs, and frankly average elite programme) to the detriment of the grass roots archers and clubs. Shame on them.
I shall be urging our club to strongly oppose this measure and to write to AGB. I hope all other clubs do likewise so we can nip this in the bud.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I totally agree with all you say. I have been approached to see if I would become secretary of my club but having seen AGB’s proposals I wouldn’t touch the job with a barge pole. Keeping up to date on individual member’s fees would be a logistical nightmare as would trying to arrange committee meetings within ten days every time a person had nominated us as their club. Then there is the added issues of club and county and regional fees.
I wonder how many other potential secretaries will have second thoughts and how many existing secretaries/membership secretaries will have breakdowns as a result of this I’ll thought out idea? It seems to me this is a back door method for AGB to get more direct cash payments (to fund their horrendously expensive HQ, staff costs, and frankly average elite programme) to the detriment of the grass roots archers and clubs. Shame on them.
I shall be urging our club to strongly oppose this measure and to write to AGB. I hope all other clubs do likewise so we can nip this in the bud.
Our club secretary resigned today. It may just be a coincidence...
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
All of our members continued with AGB membership, so this has zero impact for us....
 

Spike95609

New member
I was flicking through some of our old club minutes earlier and not only was this issue raised in 2012, it cropped up again in 2016. This idea of members affiliating at different times of there year is therefore NOT some spontaneous gesture to get club memberships back up to scratch after Covid-19, they have been trying again and again to get this on the books. It keeps on being rejected, so now they've just imposed it. Looking through these old mintues it's interesting to see how many of these ideas were circulating around at the same time, and bit by bit, drip by drip, most of them are now in place. I miss the days when GNAS (as it was back then) was run off someone's kitchen table - they didn't have the time to dream up all this stuff.

Anyway if it does go through and my club finds itself trying to manage complete chaos, it won't be a problem for us because the obvious solution is to leave AGB. Get our own third party and officers insurance, and tell our members that they shoot under that cover while they're on the grounds, and if they want to join AGB direct to shoot competitions etc then they are welcome to do so.
 

Kerf

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
AGB are really pushing this annualised membership plan. I’ve just received my second “look how easy it is” email from them this week.
 

CJ2014

Member
AGB Reply to queries.


Thank you for your email. We are in the process of collating the feedback from our regions/counties, clubs and members.

The points you have raised will be included in this and we will send a response as soon as possible.


So please send them your feedback to AGB.
 

CJ2014

Member
AGB are really pushing this annualised membership plan. I’ve just received my second “look how easy it is” email from them this week.
Could you please post the content of the emails, so we can see what our National Governing Body is doing, thanks in advance.
 

Kerf

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
This is the content of the email received today:-

Reminder: Archery GB membership renewal portal now open!

Hello there,

Outdoor archery ranges are now open and we'd love to see you on the shooting line.

Earlier this week we emailed you about a change to renewals so that you didn't miss out for those times when you couldn't shoot last year.

We just wanted to remind you that the new way to renew opens today.

Click here to join now or read on for an overview of the changes to how you rejoin.

Your membership

We know that not everyone could get to their club last year between lockdowns. In recognition of this we're doing things differently this year. From today (2 April) we’ll provide you with 12 months' membership from the point of return, if you join before 30 September.

Your membership renewal date will then be personalised to you rather than us. You’ll be able to renew yourself (which we hope you’ll find more convenient) but still have the option to renew through your local club.

If you are from a university archery club, then there is a special offer for you. Contact [email protected] for more info.

What can I expect at my local club?

Archers have been heading back to the range this week making the most of the sunshine. Although there are restrictions in place, your club won’t look all that different.

For the latest on how outdoor shooting will work under the current restrictions click here.

How to renew

Please login to the members’ portal and ensure all your details within our online system are correct. Check we hold the right email address and your communication preferences are set as you require.

To make things easier we have produced a Guide to Online Renewals for Members, which is attached to this email.

To log in please click here

We can’t wait to see you again and welcome you into the archery family.


From all of us at Archery GB
 

CJ2014

Member
Thanks, Kerf.

I openly laughed at ' Check we hold the right email address ', surely if they don't, you wouldn't have received the email.

'You’ll be able to renew yourself (which we hope you’ll find more convenient). '

I doubt any member would say it's more convenient when they have to then pay Region, County, and Club fees.

'although there are restrictions in place, your club won’t look all that different. '

Oh yes, it is! Currently, if you turn up, without booking you will be reminded of the COVID guidelines and the rule of six and asked to leave the range. AGB's latest update made it very clear of the implications to Clubs and volunteers if they do not comply with COVID guidelines and yes you guessed right the word insurance does appear in their statements.
 

Kerf

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Thanks, Kerf.

I openly laughed at ' Check we hold the right email address ', surely if they don't, you wouldn't have received the email.

'You’ll be able to renew yourself (which we hope you’ll find more convenient). '

I doubt any member would say it's more convenient when they have to then pay Region, County, and Club fees.
Totally agree - if the whole thing wasn’t such an insidious and nasty attempt at an AGB power grab you’d think it was some kind of crazy corporate April fool. I truly can’t begin to understand how AGB believes this, in any way whatsoever, is beneficial to grassroots archery or the club/county/region structure.
What is the best way to send them feedback?
 

CJ2014

Member
Totally agree - if the whole thing wasn’t such an insidious and nasty attempt at an AGB power grab you’d think it was some kind of crazy corporate April fool. I truly can’t begin to understand how AGB believes this, in any way whatsoever, is beneficial to grassroots archery or the club/county/region structure.
What is the best way to send them feedback?
I sent it to membership@archerygb.org , as I wished to confirm that their proposals were contrary to our Club Constitution but [email protected], appears to be staffed by the same staff.
 
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dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I'm still struggling to see a conspiracy here; I can't see anything other than AGB not thinking through the implications of their actions.

But I'm not saying that you're wrong; can you explain to someone who's not up on the politics (ie me) why it's a power grab?
 
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