[English Longbow] Permitted loose style Longbow

Craig P

New member
I'm just about to get a longbow.....fingers crossed
I'm currently shooting recurve both indoor's, outdoors and field
For fieldshooting i use bare bow with an up to the eye 3 fingers under the arrow for aiming
however reading the NFAS rules of shooting it says mediteranean loose 1 over 2 under for longbow
i've tried this with my recurve but couldnt hack it, i'm instinctive and aim high/low range dependant by looking along the shaft
is the mediteranean the only recognised hold for longbow?
any info greatfully rec'd
 


Craig P

New member
ta for the quick reply look's like i'm in for a style change :(
ah well gotta try new things other wise life gets boring thats why i'm after a LB
Mind you just read the IFAA rules which state for longbow "index finger must touch the nock" so 3 under would be allowable under their rules?
 


robtattoo

New member
Under IFAA regs, yes, you can shoot 3-under. NFAS & GNAS has to be mediteranian loose unfortunately. Not sure about EFAA, but I'm pretty sure it's mediteranian.
 


Raedwald

New member
Extract from the EFAA RuleBook:

" x) An archer shall hold the string when shooting in the traditional manner. i.e. index finger above the nock and middle finger below the nock, except in cases of physical deformity or handicap for which special dispensation may be made (apply to General Secretary). "
 


Field Archer

New member
ta for the quick reply look's like i'm in for a style change :(
ah well gotta try new things other wise life gets boring thats why i'm after a LB
Mind you just read the IFAA rules which state for longbow "index finger must touch the nock" so 3 under would be allowable under their rules?
Under IFAA rules, an AFB is a longbow, the English longbow is only a recognised class of its own in the UK. Shooting a longbow in the longbow class in IFAA events ouside the UK, you would be in the same class as AFB, where you can shoot 3 fingers under.
 


Macbow

New member
I am sure IFAA Rules insist a longbow/AFB is shot mediteranean loose. You cannot shoot 3 under. Check out the 2007 rules to be certain but our club operates under IFAA rules and to my knowledge the rules haven't changed.
.
 


Field Archer

New member
I've just had another look at the IFAA website. It doesn't mention either thre fingers under or Medeteranian loose for longbow. The only reference for longbow loose I could find is below.

An archer shall touch the arrow when nocked, with the index finger against the nock. Finger position may not be changed during competition.
 


Macbow

New member
OK I must be on the other IFFA website where it states in Longbow Rules (page 35 of the 2007 Rules pdf download section 7H):

The bow must be shot with the "Mediterranean" loose. In cases of physical deformity or handicap special dispensation shall be made.


Not trying to pick an argument but this is an important issue. If I was allowed to shoot three under I'd be doing it. If there has been an update to that please point me too it so I can brandish it at our next shoot.

The IFAA website that I see on my PC screen is http://www.ifaa-archery.org/ where the picture regarding bow style expressly forbids three-under.
 


Craig P

New member
thanks for all the info/discussion but it looks like i'm gonna have to wait a while,
just been outbid on the bow i wanted anyway gonna have to save a little longer :thumbsdow
 


Macbow

New member
Looks like we are both right Macbow, three fingers under is appears to be allowed till end of this year, then from 2007, Medeterainian loose only allowed.

I had followed the link to the IFAA rules from the EFAA website, http://www.ifaa-archery.org/pages/IFAA Book of Rules 2005.pdf
This is rules for January 2005 to December 2006.
Field Archer - when it comes to IFAA rules it does not surprise me that we can both be right. I do remember there was mention of a short-lived rule change that allowed 3-under in LB but by the time we'd heard about it up here in the sticks the rules had changed again and it wasn't. Yet another confusing and annoying rule in what should be a very simple division. And don't get me started on arrows :melodrama
 


Karen

New member
At present the rules for longbow IFAA is Mediterranean loose, for FITA longbow it is Mediterranean loose and for NFAS is Mediterranean loose .
By the way - if you're shooting English longbow with one over and two under should it be called something else - the Mediterranean loose sounds a bit international for something that is so limited to the English ? In France it is known as the "prise cigarette" - but then it all depends how you smoke !
 


TimS

New member
I shoot (longbow) with the Mediterranean loose (as I was originally taught a couple of years ago or so) - and have no particular intention or wish to change, however ....

I would be interested to know:

1) Why the method used should be controlled by the governing bodies provided it does not use any mechanical assistance as no other part of technique is controlled in such a way - surely if I find that pulling the string with 5 fingers and my tongue works best for me, why should I not do so ?

2) What are the 'assumed' benefits of one technique over the other (the Mediterranean loose v. the 3 under loose - rather than my more extreme suggestion)

Also on an associated issue - one of our members turned up with a multi layer tab the other day (we all use basic simple single layer leather tabs - my choice - or a few of us, gloves). What is the purpose/benefit of these multi layer devices ?
 


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Macbow

New member
Tim - I agree it should be whatever suits an archer best. I have no problem shooting against a face walker/stringwalker/3-under loose or those crazy tongue guys. If it were allowed I would use every method available to me to make the most accurate shot for a given distance. I wouldn't even have a problem shooting against trad recurves as I shoot AFB for aesthetic reasons. The wooden arrow rule is another one. If you shoot well with wood then great but i shoot better with carbon. If it's just about determining who is the best archer on a given day then as long as it is a stick and string you're using then shoot whatever helps you to post a good score. Problem is when someone is beaten fairly and squarely by someone using a different style/technique the complaints start and yet another division/category is born.
Different looses determine where the arrow is under the eye so changes your point on distance. With three fingers under I am point on at 20 yards. Med loose my point on is 50 yards. I have an advantage at 50 yards and beyond but the 3-under shooter has the advantage at the short to medium distances. A string or facewalker can adjust it so almost every distance is point on - very accurate as you have a fixed point of aim on which to base your shot process
As far as multi-layered tabs go - I have delicate soft little fingers and like them that way. It hurts less with a couple of layers especially as a gap shooter. I can take up to five seconds holding at full draw and aiming. Four arrows per target on a 28 target course - my fingers would be in bits without the extra protection.
 


TimS

New member
Macbow - interesting reply, thanks.

I think we generally agree other than while I have no problem with equipment definitions (i.e wooden arrows only), neither of us understand restrictions on technique.

If a tab (finger protection) is allowed, then I think it reasonable to allow as much protection as the individual requires (thicker, multiple tab, glove etc) -mind you I thought you Scots were all 'dead 'ard' anyway and would do without.

If as I understand the difference between 'Mediterranean loose' and '3 below' is an aiming technique,then I do not believe restrictions should/need to apply for fair competition. Doesn't matter to me as a clout/mark shooter -we don't aim !!

Brgds

TimS
 


English Bowman

Active member
The wooden arrow rule is another one. If you shoot well with wood then great but i shoot better with carbon. If it's just about determining who is the best archer on a given day then as long as it is a stick and string you're using then shoot whatever helps you to post a good score. Problem is when someone is beaten fairly and squarely by someone using a different style/technique the complaints start and yet another division/category is born.
But surely carbons are more accurate than woods, and since woods are the traditional arrow for use with longbows and AFBs then what's the difference with using carbons because you post a good score, and putting stabilisers, or a sight, or maybe a set of eccentrics on the bow?
The class is and always has been (to my knowledge) wooden arrows, and that's the way it should stay.
As for string walking or face walking, that's another matter and although I don't do it, I don't see why people shouldn't

Daniel
 


gorbalite

New member
Permitted loose style,longbow

I hope i am not straying too far from the thread by observing that carbon arrows were wood a couple of million years ago
 


Macbow

New member
But surely carbons are more accurate than woods, and since woods are the traditional arrow for use with longbows and AFBs then what's the difference with using carbons because you post a good score, and putting stabilisers, or a sight, or maybe a set of eccentrics on the bow?
The class is and always has been (to my knowledge) wooden arrows, and that's the way it should stay.
As for string walking or face walking, that's another matter and although I don't do it, I don't see why people shouldn't

Daniel
Daniel - I suppose my point is precisely because carbons or aluminium are more consistently accurate than wood. Any inaccuracies are then purely down to me the archer and not the equipment. A set of carbon/aluminium arrows is cheap compared to matched woods and if I lose one I can buy another one exactly the same. If it's about aesthetics then my carbons look exactly like wood, only straighter and stronger. For ELB I can see the traditional argument for wooden arrows having some sort of historical heritage but not for AFB. My AFB has the non-trad additions of carbon, fancy laminates and fibreglass and has been tweaked to be right on the legal limit as to what is the IFAA definition of a longbow. It is traditional in essence but far removed from a yew selfbow. Using wooden arrows from a bow like this is like putting cross ply remoulds on an F1 car. Using carbons does not mean I am just one step away from bolting on sights and shooting a compound bow.
To my mind, the simplest categories for longbow would be Primitive Longbow - ELB or any selfbow with wooden arrows - and Modern Longbow with whatever arrows or style of anchor and release works best.
 


English Bowman

Active member
MacBow

I see your point there, and I must admit that I don't know NFAS / EFAA rules that well, but in GNAS you almost have what you want.
Trad - Modern bow, no sights or stabilisers, wooden arrows
Barebow - Modern bow, no sights or stabilisers, any type of arrow.
I know that you are then competing against recurves, but then you said that you didn't have a problem with that. I take it there isn't this distinction in NFAS / EFAA?

Daniel
 


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