Prey

PLEASE HELP TO FUND ARCHERY INTERCHANGE

dvd8n

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I don't know if you've seen the trailer for "Prey", a prequel to the film Predator. It's set in the pre-colonial era USA, featuring native Americans fighting a Predator.

Anyway, the interesting thing is that the natives are using a weird upside down Mediterranean draw - the closest thing that I've seen is the draw used by the Smurfs in the movie Avatar. And it's a deliberate choice as all the characters are doing it.

What do you think? Is there any evidence for this draw historically?
 

ThomVis

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And in both instances the arrow is at the wrong side of the bow (going of the first picture I found of Lurtz drawing a bow) for it to be a viable shooting style. My £0.02
 

dvd8n

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And in both instances the arrow is at the wrong side of the bow (going of the first picture I found of Lurtz drawing a bow) for it to be a viable shooting style. My £0.02
I hadn't noticed that.
 

Riceburner

Active member
I've seen a theory that it's people (actors, or non-archer prop-managers) who have seen a compounder with a release aid shooting, and thinking 'ah - that's the way to hold your wrist', without actually knowing what's going on.

Some compound releases have the archer hold their wrist 'palm-outwards' and unless you KNOW why, it looks like a 'valid' way to shoot: because hey - they're on target aren't they?

Yet another example of the modern worlds prevalence for 'monkey-see-monkey-do' without any thought or secondary research (for further examples see pretty much every bastardisation of the english language by social media posters under the age of about 35).
 

Riceburner

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It's also worth pointing out that it's highly likely there's no arrows present in any of the actual filming - they'll all be put in by CGI later (it's safer, if for no other reason), so you no-one on set will ever realise that shooting that way is completely cack-handed.

The difference being when you have an actual archer as 'weapons-master' on set.
 

Geophys2

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And in both instances the arrow is at the wrong side of the bow (going of the first picture I found of Lurtz drawing a bow) for it to be a viable shooting style. My £0.02
Historically most mounted archers shot the arrow from the 'wrong' side of the bow, particulary those using a pinch or thumb release. There is no wrong side of the bow, just the side you use for your style of archery.
 

dvd8n

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Historically most mounted archers shot the arrow from the 'wrong' side of the bow, particulary those using a pinch or thumb release. There is no wrong side of the bow, just the side you use for your style of archery.
Yes, but the wrong side of the bow is the right side of the bow for a thumb ring. And the left side of the bow is the right side of the bow for a tab.

Assuming that you write with the right hand which is, of course, right.

😵
 

Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
ah ... the great divide! (other than compounders and actual archers ;)) .... Mediterranean and Asiatic!
my experience with my horse bow equates to:
three fingers ... straight into the target
thumb ring ... danger to worms!
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
The palm out style of shooting always seems to spark and interest when I see it. We know that some archers have tried with and succeeded to shoot well with the arrow being on the "wrong" side of the bow and a med draw. So why would a palm out draw not work?

In the trailer where the guy draws his bow whilst crouching in the grass, this style of draw could have developed from hunting, once the arrow is on the strong you don't have to move your hand as much before you start drawing.

True it might not be the most accurate way of doing it in the grand scheme, but if you can get it to work then why not?

Another point to consider, there was an episode of ultimate warrior (please note I'm not using this as definitive evidence), which showed native Americans using shorter bows but only drawing them to the chest, now whether this was done by some/all/none would require more research.

Then again Riceburner's rumour maybe right it comes from watching a compound archer.
 

bimble

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I'll just leave this photo of Icelandic archer Gummi Gudjonsson at the Berlin World Cup here...

 

dvd8n

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There's a video of him talking about it here:


It's really weird but it works for him and I'm not going to criticise.
 

Riceburner

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The palm out style of shooting always seems to spark and interest when I see it. We know that some archers have tried with and succeeded to shoot well with the arrow being on the "wrong" side of the bow and a med draw. So why would a palm out draw not work?

In the trailer where the guy draws his bow whilst crouching in the grass, this style of draw could have developed from hunting, once the arrow is on the strong you don't have to move your hand as much before you start drawing.

True it might not be the most accurate way of doing it in the grand scheme, but if you can get it to work then why not?

Another point to consider, there was an episode of ultimate warrior (please note I'm not using this as definitive evidence), which showed native Americans using shorter bows but only drawing them to the chest, now whether this was done by some/all/none would require more research.

Then again Riceburner's rumour maybe right it comes from watching a compound archer.

Wouldn't the required canting be somewhat awkward?

Obviously Gudjonsson (see video above) is using a clicker so the question is moot, but without that, if you were shooting off the hand especially, the bow would have to be canted a degree or few 'counter-clockwise' from absolutely vertical if the arrow is on the 'offside' (ie, away from the wrist).

This isn't an issue in horseback archery (and thumb release) because the archer tends to be pointing to the 'nearside' (ie to the left, when holding the bow in the left) and so there is a degree of 'wind' pushing against the arrow and keeping it in place.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
You don't need to cant the bow to shoot like this. I've done it, just to see if it could be done. Someone offered me a left handed bow to try, and my thought process was, the bow was designed to be shot with the string coming off the fingers to the right. If I shot it as I normally shoot, right handed, the string will leave my fingers to the left, but if I turned my hand the other way up then the string would leave to the right exactly the same way as a left handed archer shooting normally. The arrows flew straight and it worked surprising well.
 

Riceburner

Active member
You don't need to cant the bow to shoot like this. I've done it, just to see if it could be done. Someone offered me a left handed bow to try, and my thought process was, the bow was designed to be shot with the string coming off the fingers to the right. If I shot it as I normally shoot, right handed, the string will leave my fingers to the left, but if I turned my hand the other way up then the string would leave to the right exactly the same way as a left handed archer shooting normally. The arrows flew straight and it worked surprising well.
Was that a modern bow with a shelf and/or something to hold the arrow in place though?

I was more thinking about shooting off the hand - most of the cinematic archery representations that depict this release are traditional bows.
 

English Bowman

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Was that a modern bow with a shelf and/or something to hold the arrow in place though?

I was more thinking about shooting off the hand - most of the cinematic archery representations that depict this release are traditional bows.
I've done it with a modern recurve and sight, I didn't use the clicker, and with an American Flatbow. (I've also shot an Asiatic recurve from the right hand side of the bow, but used a thumbring then)
 

dvd8n

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Ona similar note I was watching Shad on YouTube reviewing the trailer for the new Willow series and he was doing his nut about the arrows.

It really did look like the armourer had just run down to the local hunting supply shop and bought a handful of carbon arrows from the clearance bin, complete with modern machine cut and dyed feathers, and fluorescent polycarbonate nocks
🤦‍♂️
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Ona similar note I was watching Shad on YouTube reviewing the trailer for the new Willow series and he was doing his nut about the arrows.

It really did look like the armourer had just run down to the local hunting supply shop and bought a handful of carbon arrows from the clearance bin, complete with modern machine cut and dyed feathers, and fluorescent polycarbonate nocks
🤦‍♂️
I have no respect for Shad at all, he doesn't know half as much as he claims, and so many of his claims are incorrect.
He used a photo of me to prove his point that fire arrows don't work. (They can) when I contacted him to say that I was one of the archers in the photo, and explain to him what happened and why that photo didn't show what he thought it did he ignored me completely.
The guy is ignorant and refuses to learn the facts, instead he tries to push his own ideas even when they are demonstrably wrong. In my opinion it's fine to disagree with someone, after all no one knows about history 100%, unless you happen to know an alien with a Police Box, but this guy is so far wrong on so many basic things it's just not funny.
I've seen a few of his videos and yet to see one without a major flaw or falsehood in it.
 
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