Records Claims for Long and Short Metrics as part of the WA1440

ArcheryFox

New member
Hi All, I am a records officer looking for clarifiction on Long and Short Metric claims.

Having looked at the WA rulebook it would appear that the L/S Metric are AGB rounds, not WA. The AGB Rules (308 b, part v) say that "distance records can be claimed as part of the WA1440", but do not mention L/S Metric, consistent with WA.

308 b part iv says "Claims will not be accepted for a shorter round shot by an archer within a longer round on the same day", however Archery GB records here contain L/S Metric records that were shot at WA1440 competitions (though I realise you can do these in the morning or afternoon separately in conjunction with a 1440...)

So in summary, can you claim Long and Short Metric records from a score which is part of a WA1440 as you would a distance record?

Any clarification appreciated, thanks in advance. :)
 


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ArcheryFox

New member
Thankfully folks on here aren't as agressive as those on stack exchange as when I revisited the post this evening the 'related posts' links yielded posts here and here.


It would seem that you could once claim rounds embedded in others, but that this was changed (hence the old national records).


It is possible, however, that some clubs/counties continue to operate using the older rules.
 


Corax67

Active member
At a purely club level some of our archers shoot short metrics for practice prior to attending comps where 1440’s are to be shot, this is so they can tweak sight marks and get in a bit of gentle warm up.

Bacause of this we have club records for all of these rounds but they are records only from rounds shot at the club and not for scores attained as part of the longer rounds at away events.

Hope you find an ‘official’ guide on whether it’s acceptable practice.



Karl
 


bimble

Active member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
of course, if this is just for your club records, being the records officer, the decision is really up to you. After all, AGB would only accept records from a record status shoot, presumably you'd accept a club record from a club shoot.
 


ArcheryFox

New member
Indeed, though we try to be consistent with AGB so knowing whether you can claim the Long/Short Metric from a 1440 is an interesting question...
I also suppose I might hypothetically have club members who want to claim national L/S metric records from a UKRS 1440 if it is allowed and want clarification.

I emailed ArcheryGB to ask about this and this was the response:

'Nested rounds i.e. shorter rounds shot as part of a longer round are not accepted in our rules. However, as our Rules Advisor informed me many years ago, the Long Metric element can be allowed because it is the first part of the round and therefore an archer shooting a 1440 and another archer shooting a stand alone Long Metric both shoot under the same conditions with no advantage to another. With a Short Metric, it cannot be allowed as part of a 1440 because the Long Metric has already been shot therefore giving an advantage to a person shooting a 1440 and claiming the Short Metric against a person shooting a stand alone Short Metric.
So in summary, the Long Metric is allowed but not the Short Metric.'

However, this still leaves me in some confusion...
By the same logic records claims for a National round would be acceptable from a Western competition, but surely this is a 'Nested round i.e. a shorter round shot as part of a longer round' as mentioned above that is 'not accepted'...?
Or are we saying a National record could only be claimed if the shoot was a 'Westerns and National Rounds' (that well known combination...) event such that both were officially (rather than technically) running concurrently...?
 


bimble

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Supporter
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Ironman
if you really want to blow your mind, remember that a 1440 can be shot over two days*, as a Long Metric, followed by the Short Metric. And being the second day, the "advantage" of having shot the Long Metric has been removed...

* - and in reverse, and in reverse over two days....
 


If you look at some county records the same event recorded 3 or 4 county distance records. Like clout shooting and double clouts being 2 separate clout shoots it is a metter for interpretation of the same words. For example if you stop for lunch during a 1440 after the 70m stage does the afternoon count as a restart?
 


munchkin

Member
If you look at some county records the same event recorded 3 or 4 county distance records. Like clout shooting and double clouts being 2 separate clout shoots it is a metter for interpretation of the same words. For example if you stop for lunch during a 1440 after the 70m stage does the afternoon count as a restart?
I believe that this depends on the length of the lunch break. Back in the day when I did these competitions, if we got a longer than X minutes break, then we'd get practice in the afternoon too, and the subsequent round would be eligible for records. Happy to stand corrected if this has changed!
 


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