Shooting pellets vs arrows

Kernowlad

Supporter
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A real similarity is the love of technically (and accuracy) inferior springers compared to the more accurate and consistent PCPs. Some say the springers have more “soul” and most collectors seem to have a few of both.

Reminds me of compound vs almost any other bow!
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
I suppose it depends on whether archery is a sport or hobby for me it is a sport and my equipment are the tools to allow me to compete, it is well tuned for the job, yes to me it looks good and is very efficient, but functionality is more important for example the colour of my nocks is based on that fact that I can see them at 70m not to fit in with a colour scheme. If this was just a hobby then my priorities would be different. I guess it's the same for competition gun shooters it is the score that counts and these weapons would not win a beauty contest.

In away a part of me is sad that weapons create such emotions.

We all admire the Spitfire but at the end of the day it was an efficient, beautiful killing machine.
 

David292

New member
I think for me archery could be a cool hobby when I am tired of rifle hunting. No need for popularizing...it is just up to the person and his mood and taste.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
I’m not pitching one against the other, just observing. We won’t be selling our kit; we still love a day in the woods with our club or pinging arrows on the garden. I think they actually complement each other quite well.
But I do wonder if archery could take a few plus points of rifle shooting and use them to make it more accessible. Because it feels like archery is slipping away in popularity, hampered by a major governing body getting it wrong on many counts as well as some rather tired abc stuffy attitudes from some that completely put new archers off.
 
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mbaker74

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But I do wonder if archery could take a few plus points of rifle shooting and use them to make it more accessible. Because it feels like archery is slipping away in popularity, hampered by a major governing body getting it wrong on many counts as well as some rather tired abc stuffy attitudes from some that completely put new archers off.
How is rifle shooting more accessible than Archery? I know of 7 archery clubs within 20 miles of my home, and a shop, but I am fairly sure there is not a rifle club anywhere near me.... A clay shooting club yes, but rifles no... And I still believe the popularity of archery has absolutely nothing to do with AGB, its down to the local clubs to advertise, run good beginners courses and have a go's, and get people into the sport. Of course once they are in, keeping them is a different thread all together.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
How is rifle shooting more accessible than Archery? I know of 7 archery clubs within 20 miles of my home, and a shop, but I am fairly sure there is not a rifle club anywhere near me.... A clay shooting club yes, but rifles no... And I still believe the popularity of archery has absolutely nothing to do with AGB, its down to the local clubs to advertise, run good beginners courses and have a go's, and get people into the sport. Of course once they are in, keeping them is a different thread all together.
My nearest archery shop? 2.5 hours.
Gun shop? 15 minutes. Another one is 20 minutes away.
Take away the painfully inaccessible and long coaching period, the cries of “you’ll probably kill everyone” however safe your home setup, calm down on the bizarre snobbery against some forms of archery and you might be getting somewhere.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
I’m assuming “rifle shooting” meant air rifle or even just air gun. Which you will probably find you have a variety of near you even if you don’t know they are there. But I am not clear on exactly what the lessons we can learn are.

Many people buy Airguns to shoot in their garden, they achieve some competence and move up to club (not always but historicalply it fits most airgunners I know). But air weapon licensing pretty much closed that path (unless you own a nice country estate) in Scotland. Either way I don’t think this is likely to ever be a good feeder path to hobbyist or competitive archery.

Unless traffic is very light I have zero archery clubs within 20 minutes and I live within 10 miles of a major city. 30 minutes and I have a field and a target club. The target club rents council facilities so has very limited indoor access.

Im not sure about the snobby bit, it hasn’t been true in my experience. I started as a field archer and loved it. In Uni years I moved to target as that was the facility available. Most of the top target shooters shoot field as well. So not sure if this is an individual’s bad luck based on clubs in their locality Or whether I’ve just been lucky.

All weapons type clubs attract some folks who seem to be more interested in the weapon than the mastery of the weapon but hey that’s just how these things go.

The only time I polish my bow or my rifle is when it just got soaked (like this morning) and living near Edinburgh that is quite often.

Stretch
 

dvd8n

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My nearest archery shop? 2.5 hours.
Gun shop? 15 minutes. Another one is 20 minutes away.
Take away the painfully inaccessible and long coaching period, the cries of “you’ll probably kill everyone” however safe your home setup, calm down on the bizarre snobbery against some forms of archery and you might be getting somewhere.
I think I'm well off with a field archery club 5 miles away from my house but thinking about it I have to drive past the local small bore rifle club to get to it.

There are then probably half a dozen rifle and airgun clubs closer than the next closest archery club. It'd be way easier to get into shooting than archery where I live.
 
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Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Well I just did an extremely unscientific test in the garden; rifle vs compound bow. Three shots each.
Bow first and seeing as I haven’t picked it up for a while, I was a bit surprised to get them all in the middle at 15 metres.
Next up was the rifle; probably zoomed a bit much but I couldn’t shake off a bad wobble (standing, unsupported; needed to make it fair).

Results; possibly better with the bow. Obviously the rifle supported is WAY more accurate but you can’t support a bow.

Then the rain got too heavy.

TBF I’m a lot more “recently experienced” with a bow (I shot a lot at OTC in my early 20s) but I do seem a bit steadier with the Mybo.

Having said that with a support I’ve been happily plinking a small tuna can at 60 yards with the rifle. Definitely couldn’t do that with my bow!
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
I don't think archery or the interest in archery is dying off more the opposite, there is never a shortage of people wanting to enrol on courses and Centre Parcs and the like always have full sessions the hardest working stall at any fayre is the have a go archery - this year has been devastating for growth, but nobody planning as to how we catch up and get two years of interest up and shooting this summer if we get a grip of this virus. We are also very wasteful in what we do with this enthusiasm and how we look after it in the longer term.
In the past you used to be able to put a pin in a map where all the archery dealers and clubs were and you would see clusters around the dealers, this is now being diluted due to online shopping. I guess this is the same with Gun clubs and dealers. Because of the churn in membership each year that has kept numbers almost static, opening or expending a bricks and mortar archery shop in the UK is philanthropy rather than sound business proposition. If we were to see growth of the membership of all societies, archers would benefit from more dealers, bigger clubs and better facilities which will lead to more expansion year on year and a healthy sport that is progressive rather than as now - doing things because that is how it has always been done.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
Not much to disagree with on that post. I think the root is the availability of somewhere to shoot, locally at a time that suits. Clubs dependent on renting expensive sports halls twice or three times a week are always going to battle for retention. But acquiring permanent facilities anywhere near a major city is a serious cost... and that is assuming they’ll give you planning consent as the council makes more money off a housing estate.

Ah the misery :cry:

Stretch
 

Geophys2

Active member
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I don't think archery or the interest in archery is dying off more the opposite, there is never a shortage of people wanting to enrol on courses and Centre Parcs and the like always have full sessions the hardest working stall at any fayre is the have a go archery - this year has been devastating for growth, but nobody planning as to how we catch up and get two years of interest up and shooting this summer if we get a grip of this virus. We are also very wasteful in what we do with this enthusiasm and how we look after it in the longer term.
The major trends in archery in recent times seem to have been towards field archery, oh and of course, in target archery, the switch from recurve to barebow.

My NFAS field club now has a waiting list of nearly sixty people for our beginners courses, that's five full courses for us to run, which in itself will put a strain on the club's coaches time when the restrictions are lifted, we have been running a number of courses for existing experienced archers from AGB target clubs as these can be done with the required social distancing.

As we are an NFAS field archery club we don't need a hard to find, large flat area of grass to shoot. We have a great relationship with the farmer where we have two woods. With luck when the restrictions are finally removed we hope to see a healthy growth in club numbers.

My old target club on the other hand shoots on a primary school field where no shooting has been possible since March, and will likely not be shooting again until the vaccination program has been fully rolled out, if ever.
 
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chrisgas

Supporter
Supporter
Perhaps the archery community needs to speak to more farmers or golf range managers? Here in Spain where the Spanish have truly family businesses where many own the bricks and morter and the "family" drop in to help out, are the ones that will survive the pandemic. Not all granted but they are in a much stronger position to survive the economic downturns that hit us from time to time. Perhaps archery needs to go a similar way, with people investing into the bricks and morter? I know that seemingly "I´m all talk" but getting people to open dedicated facilities and invest in archery is the only way long term that facilities will improve and retention may also.

I have no experience of running an archery facility just ideas but I have seen on the whole what a rag tag service clientele are expected to put up with. For a lot of archers it seems archery is a better option than the potting shed and not always inclusive of all family members, possibly because of the standard of facilities on offer. Don´t get me wrong to many it is much more than that, those are the ones who put up with the rain and cold and "in the main" poor facilities.

If archery is to grow then long term archery facilities need to improve. To me it has to be more than a quick run down to the range, pop a few arrows off and come back home, it should be a much more inclusive social experience. I stopped work as a "one man band cowboy builder" for three years and put 50k into the renovation of my finca, I earn peanuts, relatively to a lot of people but I am putting my money"what there is" where my mouth is, not initially on equipment but on facilities. I guess only time will tell but I believe that I will eventually have a business that will support me and the local archery community.

I hope to have my shooting licences in the near future, I have the local Valencian archery association helping me with the application. I understand Whiteheart and Kernolad have connections in this area of Spain and I would invite them next time they are over here to come and be my guest for a few hours or a couple of days.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
The major trends in archery in recent times seem to have been towards field archery, oh and of course, in target archery, the switch from recurve to barebow.

My NFAS field club now has a waiting list of nearly sixty people for our beginners courses, that's five full courses for us to run, which in itself will put a strain on the club's coaches time when the restrictions are lifted, we have been running a number of courses for existing experienced archers from AGB target clubs as these can be done with the required social distancing.

As we are an NFAS field archery club we don't need a hard to find, large flat area of grass to shoot. We have a great relationship with the farmer where we have two woods. With luck when the restrictions are finally removed we hope to see a healthy growth in club numbers.

My old target club on the other hand shoots on a primary school field where no shooting has been possible since March, and will likely not be shooting again until the vaccination program has been fully rolled out, if ever.
This is a good example of the problem - 60 people waiting, perhaps we need to think collectively about the resources we have. Have all clubs got 60 waiting (if so then there really is a problem) if not why not spread the load even run special centralised courses using help from other club coaches to clear the backlog surely NFAS could help getting things like this up and running is it not what they are supposed to do support the clubs? The biggest objection I have heard to this so far is that a club may lose a member to another club and how the money from courses is shared out.
 

KidCurry

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AIUK Saviour
... but getting people to open dedicated facilities and invest in archery is the only way long term that facilities will improve and retention may also.
To be honest I think you need to be partly crazy, actually, buying a retail premises in the UK to set up an archery shop. Apart from the insane price of retail premises in the UK and the business rates, the need for some shooting space means any suitable property is few and far between and expensive. Then the need to service on-line orders, which you will need to survive, where customers require ridiculously fast delivery for peanuts, which you can't do while serving customers, so you end up working all hours just to survive. I've seen far more archery businesses end than start. I looked at it a few years ago but not for long. I take my hat off to anyone doing this for a living.
 

Geophys2

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This is a good example of the problem - 60 people waiting, perhaps we need to think collectively about the resources we have. Have all clubs got 60 waiting (if so then there really is a problem) if not why not spread the load even run special centralised courses using help from other club coaches to clear the backlog surely NFAS could help getting things like this up and running is it not what they are supposed to do support the clubs? The biggest objection I have heard to this so far is that a club may lose a member to another club and how the money from courses is shared out.
We were due to run a two courses when the first lockdown was introduced, and have had more than 30 applicants since March. The rules have meant that we couldn't run the courses since, but will be having them as soon as the law allows us to. As club coaches we know that it will be a major commitment to put on these courses and have decided to run four at the same time, Saturday AM and PM and Sunday AM and PM over six weeks, so should get the backlog cleared relatively quickly. One of the other two NFAS clubs within an hour or so drive has recently closed and NFAS coaches are not thick on the ground so NFAS centrally organised courses are not really feasible, remember the NFAS is a small volunteer run organisation, it's not AGB. As I said we have been able to run courses for experienced archers as social distance can be maintained, I for one wouldn't want to run a beginners course without the ability to step in quickly to correct something that was unsafe or harmful to the archer.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
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This is a good example of the problem - 60 people waiting, perhaps we need to think collectively about the resources we have. Have all clubs got 60 waiting (if so then there really is a problem) if not why not spread the load even run special centralised courses using help from other club coaches to clear the backlog surely NFAS could help getting things like this up and running is it not what they are supposed to do support the clubs? The biggest objection I have heard to this so far is that a club may lose a member to another club and how the money from courses is shared out.
In Central Scotland a company called MRM Archery runs target archery beginners courses as a commercial enterprise and then sends the students out to the clubs. Our target club hasn't run beginners courses in at least ten years.
 
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Geophys2

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As an NFAS club, we would still have to run conversion courses for archers that have completed an AGB beginners course, though these are only two sessions of two hours each, just to make sure that they understand the different rules and procedures. We of course check that they are safe shooting in a woodland environment and understand the different discipline and safety needs. However we are in a very rural area, and AGB clubs are a bit thin on the ground with only three in the entire large county, though I do belong to one as well where I shoot barebow and longbow.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
As an NFAS club, we would still have to run conversion courses for archers that have completed an AGB beginners course, though these are only two sessions of two hours each, just to make sure that they understand the different rules and procedures. We of course check that they are safe shooting in a woodland environment and understand the different discipline and safety needs. However we are in a very rural area, and AGB clubs are a bit thin on the ground with only three in the entire large county, though I do belong to one as well where I shoot barebow and longbow.
That’s what we did.
 
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