Spotting Scopes

Judge

New member
Rik said:
The only thing I can see in the rules is that it says you have to be behind the waiting line with all your equipment, if you're not shooting. I guess that this could be open to interpretation, but I suspect that most judges would include the scope in your "equipment". How they deal with a scope being shared by two people, is another matter...

Oops, should read on a bit more...! Yes the scope is considered to be part of your equipment and in GNAS should be removed. The way I handle archers sharing a scope is that it should be removed when both archers have finished that end, however I suspect that if I applied the rules to the letter the scope would have to be moved each time each archer steps off the line. This is in fairness to archers who have to remove their scope after 3 arrows before putting it back on for their final 3 and having to set the scope back up. However I would consider the risk of damage to a very expensive piece of equipment!

In FITA interestingly it is only the scope that is allowed to be left on the line, some archers have tried hanging their quivers from the tripod or leaning their bow against it before walking off the line, this is a no no!
 

SLOWHAND

New member
Always wanted to ask this Judge, whats the best way to get a 10. The totally confident technique " I'm sure its a ten, any fool can see that, but I'd just like your confirmation" or the Uriah Heap technique " terribly sorry to bother you Judge, but would you mind having a look at this and giving me your very valuable opinion"
 

Judge

New member
SLOWHAND said:
Always wanted to ask this Judge, whats the best way to get a 10. The totally confident technique " I'm sure its a ten, any fool can see that, but I'd just like your confirmation" or the Uriah Heap technique " terribly sorry to bother you Judge, but would you mind having a look at this and giving me your very valuable opinion"
The kids have the right idea, those big bags of jelly babies really help concentrate the mind! No in all seriousness, I just hate it when I arrive at the target to have an archer say, "this is my arrow can you tell me what it has scored?" Maybe I'm a rarity in judging but I try hard not to know whose arrow it is, and will then look very carefully before giving a decision. My best advise is try to agree on your target with your companions the value of an arrow, then you don't need to call a judge. Once you call a judge you pretty much have to stick with the way they've called it.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
SLOWHAND said:
Always wanted to ask this Judge, whats the best way to get a 10. The totally confident technique " I'm sure its a ten, any fool can see that, but I'd just like your confirmation" or the Uriah Heap technique " terribly sorry to bother you Judge, but would you mind having a look at this and giving me your very valuable opinion"
You don't ask, You don't call a judge. You call the arrow what you think it is and give yourself the benefit of the doubt.

If anyone else disagrees, it's up to them to call a judge.
Never (never, never) call a judge for your own arrows. If in doubt, call it in.
 

cliveanne

New member
Ironman
Rik said:
You don't ask, You don't call a judge. You call the arrow what you think it is and give yourself the benefit of the doubt.

If anyone else disagrees, it's up to them to call a judge.
Never (never, never) call a judge for your own arrows. If in doubt, call it in.

I always call, & wait to see what happens, as you say, let the other call the judge.
 
D

Deleted member 74

Guest
I've only ever been overruled on an arrow value twice in my shooting career. Both were close. As mentioned, always call it in, there are plenty of people who are willing to call you down.
 

disbloke

New member
Ah if only I had that privelige. Us wheelchair archers have to rely on the honesty of our target partners scoring for us.

If we went to the target every end you'd never see us hit the target after a couple of ends.:melodrama
 

tel

Active member
Fonz Awardee
same as though - target partner calls it in unless specifically instructed to do otherwise....surely?
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
disbloke said:
Ah if only I had that privelige. Us wheelchair archers have to rely on the honesty of our target partners scoring for us.

If we went to the target every end you'd never see us hit the target after a couple of ends.:melodrama
Except for the guy I see at the Middlesex FITA.... I don't know the wattage on the motor he uses, but he tears up and down the field at close to a sprinting pace! It's a clever little gadget, not part of the chair as it comes, but an add-on which sticks out the front with an extra wheel on it... You just have to remember to look both ways before stepping out from your tent.
 

Max

New member
On the subject of scopes, please give some consideration to us left handers. Leaving scopes on the line to claim a bit of real estate is just plain infuriating. I rarely bring a scope to the line any more because there is never enough room - I know I am usually the odd one out, but trying to intertwine two sets of scope legs is often impossible. Very often the guy to my left has made himself comfy then plonked his scope tripod down, so that I am practically straddling the leg. It would be nice to see some restriction on how far scope tripod legs are allowed to spread in the direction of the next spot.
 

Bald Eagle

New member
Stake ypur claim Max! If you are "A" on the target , you have the right to stand where you want! Usually, if I'm shooting with a "righty" we share a scope on the line.
 

Thunk

Well-known member
Ironman
Max said:
. Very often the guy to my left has made himself comfy then plonked his scope tripod down, so that I am practically straddling the leg. It would be nice to see some restriction on how far scope tripod legs are allowed to spread in the direction of the next spot.

I'm left-handed but I've never experienced something like that. The way you describe it, it's unsporting and just plain rude. I have to say, if someone was that disrespectful of my presence on the shooting line, I'm pretty sure my draw arm elbow would make contact with metal and he'd be picking his prize optics out of the mud.
 

doubletop

New member
spotting scopes

for major tournaments could spotting scopes be provided and set up by range staff im not a competition shooter yet but i think im with Thunk if a scope got in my way it might fall over by accident of course or what is wrong with binoculars
 

Thunk

Well-known member
Ironman
Personally I don't see the point of scopes on a shooting line; if you can't see where your arrows are going, use binoculars. I have a 'scope but it sites back on the waiting line for use between ends. If tripods get in the way of other competitors they should be banished back behind the shooting line.
 

Flandyman

New member
doubletop said:
for major tournaments could spotting scopes be provided and set up by range staff im not a competition shooter yet but i think im with Thunk if a scope got in my way it might fall over by accident of course or what is wrong with binoculars
I shoot IFAA Field so scopes dont come into it for me - but have to say a good pair of binocs should do the same job and are a. not in anyones way and b. easy to carry in a pouch to and from the shoot line

I have to say I find the whole scope thing a bit strange - mind you any good Kowa TSN2s going cheap (for the birdwatching) when you upgrade to the latest all singing all dancing let me know !
 

Munsterman

Active member
thunk said:
I'm left-handed but I've never experienced something like that. The way you describe it, it's unsporting and just plain rude. I have to say, if someone was that disrespectful of my presence on the shooting line, I'm pretty sure my draw arm elbow would make contact with metal and he'd be picking his prize optics out of the mud.

I am also left handed and I would agree. The archers right to position himself or herself optimally, should come ahead of the archers right to plonk a scope down where it will obstruct others. Such awkward placement of scope is a form of gamesmanship/cheating and judges should take a strong view on it. What is next from such inconsiderate archers? Arrow bending?
 

Judge

New member
GingerGeneCarrier said:
I am also left handed and I would agree. The archers right to position himself or herself optimally, should come ahead of the archers right to plonk a scope down where it will obstruct others. Such awkward placement of scope is a form of gamesmanship/cheating and judges should take a strong view on it. What is next from such inconsiderate archers? Arrow bending?
I would take a strong view on an archer restricting anothers space to shoot by using a scope without discretion. If you run into that situation and the archer with the scope won't compromise, call a judge. As a judge, I'd insist that the legs are closed down or the scope is kept entirely within the achers on space ie, their side of the pin whilst they do not interfere with the archer each side of them. At FITA each archer has a minimum 80cm of space to shoot from.

Personally, I didn't use a scope and used to use binoculars. Binoculars of the strength required to accurately identify my arrows at 100yard / 90metres were hard to hold still enough. I now use a scope and have seen a significant improvement in my shooting. I will continue to shoot with a scope until the rules do not permit them. I do not condemn anyone who chooses to use them as they do provide a great benefit to shooting. But I do concede that they can cause space issues by insensitive archers.

I once had an archer a Dunster Week, during the GWAS Chamionship Double York, and he set up the scope behind him, after each arrow he would trot round the scope and look for his arrow, before then returning to his shooting position. He took no notice at what stage of shooting I was at. I asked him to at least check whether I was at full draw first, none too calmly I must admit. Had he not conceded I would have then called a judge. BTW that was about 6/7 years ago, before I was a judge myself.
 
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