Starting again...

Bowselecta

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Hello,
I have been having problems over the past year shooting so much so, that I have dropped out the club scene during this outdoor season.
I get very nervous shooting in unfamilar surroundings and shooting at club matches that it hit me both in trying to shoot and in the head mentally.
I have never had an arrow come off the rest so many times than in two club matches last year and although clubmates and competitiors were brilliant I would always be the last person on the line, asked the person standing that is is okay to go but so aware of being there that I would panic, arrow falls off so restart and rush and panic sets in again that I didn't shoot as well as I would hope.
Tried a few times popping in during the indoor season and although I could shoot ok-ish it still didn't feel right and then the outdoor season started and I just couldn't get it or feel right. I was having advice on using the clicker during the indoor and the start of the outdoor season from Geoffretired and although his emails were brilliant I just didn't get it and therefore doom and gloom set in thus I couldn't be bothered to attend club practice and Sunday shoots. I would pop over with my son Chris but would chat and not shoot and then I lost my father which hit me far more than I ever imagined being so decided to hang up the bow for a while or if I am honest, for good.
I always if I can log on here everyday and found many threads and posts very funny or thought provoking.
I was in contact with Geoff every so often and he knows now but I always said I would do this or that and in fact didn't do anything and I think I was just fooling myself until a thread came up about coaching by Supressed.
I contacted Geoff and asked if it may be possible to meet up and he can have a look and advise me and I could then make a decision to stop or to start again.
Chris and I travelled to Poole and met up with Geoff and had a chat, a bite to eat and then started shooting.
Now you must remember that we have never met before and within a short space of time we were laughing and joking about and Geoff got us to shoot and then offered advice on this and that or do this instead of that and this happened over a course of 5 1/2 hours or so.
My release was pretty bad if I am honest as I'l flick the draw hand out to the side,away from the face and not across my neck but within a short space of time Geoff had me doing different things to help my release become as it should be and to stop me creeping.
When we left both Chris and I were buzzing and had had a fantastic time with Geoff and the desire to shoot was back with me and if I am honest that changed within 15 - 20 minutes at the very start with Geoff as I felt so relaxed and at ease in his company that it just got better and better as the session went on and was shooting with a clicker for the last couple of hours or so.

I think that Geoff is a fantastic coach who shows and explains what is needed/required whereas I had experienced in the past the do it like this approach but not much chat plus he is also a fantastic chap as well.
He alone has changed my feelings for this sport of ours and since we left him last week I have pinged over 200+ arrows at short distance and recently due the the weather have been exercising with a spare grip and elastic band for the last 3 days which is something I never thought I'd do.(off on a break from work)
.
I plan to see Geoff again sooner rather than later and I cannot thank him enough for what he had done for me in just one long session and I do now feel as if I am starting again.
 

geoffretired

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I may be repeating myself, but it needs to be remembered that both sides of the coaching pair need to work together to get anywhere. Don't underestimate what your part was in the session.It was not all one way traffic; and I don't mean the travelling!
 

Bowselecta

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Hi Geoff,
You are right in being a two way thing pus the travelling was excellent as I have an excellent sat nav. ;)

Your are too modest in my opinion....your teachings and making things easily understood is second to none IMHO and although it is a two way street, understanding what to do has made it very easy for me to comprehend and put right or better as I mentioned before where I'd struggle to get what was being asked of me from distance or even at my club it all fell into place under your guidence.
It has put a smile back on my face and I want to practice either in the field or at home if it's raining and I have never done that since my beginners course in 2007.

I do feel it's a new start for me as what I am now trying to learn to shoot is completely different to how I used to shoot and although I'll not get carried away with it all just now, I wanted people to know how happy I am with what I am now doing, how I am enjoying myself which is down to you and showing me the way forward.

Paul
 

geoffretired

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My part lasted a few hours. Yours requires effort for the next 30years otherwise I'll be on your back!!!!!!Heehee. Enjoy it!
 

Bowselecta

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Hello,
Just an update....I have been shooting short range 5 - 6 yards withthe clicker and due to rain then used stretchy band to exercise etc.
Popped out yesterday to "our" field and set the bossup at 20 yds for 3 dozen - 320 and it felt smooth throughout with a couple of slight delays on release.
Aha I thought so set up for 30 yds - 286 for the 3 dozen and it felt so different at 30 than 20 and I got the wobbles and twanged/slapped the string numerous times which snapped the lower portion of the centre serving...a bad habit I have had really from the start. I was also taking too long in the shot and I should of come down but fought it instead and therefore the arrow didn't go where it where it supposed to on the target.
Now I know that there should be no real difference at any distance when using the clicker but maybe got a bit too confident at 20 yards so will work on that some more and maybe move back 5 yds after a while and get that right and move another 5 and so on.
Went back to 5 -6 yards and shot a final 6, all were within a 4cm diameter.

I think I may/will have to come right down in limb poundage from the 40's I have and shot with with Geoff(he did say to drop down whe I got home) tried the 38's and then a set of 34's and it was the 34's I shot with yestrday that I have but think maybe going to 30lb so I really can work on my form and release without too much of a strain and get my body to fully understand what it needs to do ?

I'll keep you updated as I go and if anyone has a set of 30/32lb medium limbs not being used at the moment I wonder if I may be able to borrow them or have them on loan or even buy ?

Cheers,
Paul
 

barney41262

New member
I had similar probs with my head & nerves,have gone over to FITA field and am born again.!! No shooting line nerves ,being left on the line last nerves etc etc, only 3 or 4 FREINDLY archers wandering around the woods together having a laugh and shooting arras, i never thought archey could be so much fun and field has re-kindled my enthusiasm for competition with a bow.
 

Bowselecta

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Hello Barney,
Hmmmm..... Field eh ???
I think I will perservere with my new learnt release for the moment and take it gradually up through the yardage and poundage but have duly noted field as an alternative option or try both ?
 
Last edited:

Darryl

New member
Hello,
Just an update....I have been shooting short range 5 - 6 yards withthe clicker and due to rain then used stretchy band to exercise etc.
Popped out yesterday to "our" field and set the bossup at 20 yds for 3 dozen - 320 and it felt smooth throughout with a couple of slight delays on release.
Aha I thought so set up for 30 yds - 286 for the 3 dozen and it felt so different at 30 than 20 and I got the wobbles and twanged/slapped the string numerous times which snapped the lower portion of the centre serving...a bad habit I have had really from the start. I was also taking too long in the shot and I should of come down but fought it instead and therefore the arrow didn't go where it where it supposed to on the target.
Now I know that there should be no real difference at any distance when using the clicker but maybe got a bit too confident at 20 yards so will work on that some more and maybe move back 5 yds after a while and get that right and move another 5 and so on.
Went back to 5 -6 yards and shot a final 6, all were within a 4cm diameter.

I think I may/will have to come right down in limb poundage from the 40's I have and shot with with Geoff(he did say to drop down whe I got home) tried the 38's and then a set of 34's and it was the 34's I shot with yestrday that I have but think maybe going to 30lb so I really can work on my form and release without too much of a strain and get my body to fully understand what it needs to do ?

I'll keep you updated as I go and if anyone has a set of 30/32lb medium limbs not being used at the moment I wonder if I may be able to borrow them or have them on loan or even buy ?

Cheers,
Paul
After the Exmouth FITA weekend, I have started considering a drop in poundage as I shot my limbs at the lowest setting for a FITA70 but didn't realise they were at the lowest. I was wondering why I was getting through the clicker with ease and releasing with my draw hand stroking my throat on release. Also had plenty of time available on the clock so wasn't the last on the line. Then in the evening I practiced for the FITA Gents and couldn't hit 90m. It was at this point I realised I had been playing with my poundage. So I wound them back up to where they should be and now I'm struggling with control and I believe I'm collapsing at times as my draw hand ends up waving good bye to the arrow. Now I know a hand rotated like that isn't bad aslong as it remains touching the back of the neck as Brady Elison draw hand wrist rotates but he maintains correct back tension and follow through so it's not a problem. Mine ends up at time waving the arrow and it'll be about 2 inches out from my ear lobe lol :)
 

Bowselecta

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Hi Darryl,
I hope you and GF are well.
I would seem as if we may have had the the same scenario with waving the arrow goodbye.
When I was with Geoff I used one of his clubs bows at 30lb and I was able to understand the clicker and was able to release going across my throat/jawline which was something I had never been able to do before as I would either dead release or wave at the arrow. So I want to start at that area poundage wise and work through until I shoot my 40 lb limbs again but am not sure how long that may take ?
The one thing I have found is that the shot is consistant each time and although I use a Titan scope with the pin in (which I have been asked to take out by Geoff) my arrows were going if fairly decent groups although it was short distance and inside, it was really nice to see and get that good feel factor from what I was doing with instruction from Geoff.
So maybe it is best for me to drop the poudage to something I am comfortable with and shoot the shorter distances and build up my form and then move to a longer distance although it will be hard as we are coming towards the end of the outdoor season so to speak but maybe work it in "our" field as I don't think I renew my membership at the club for now.
Slowly catchey monkey and we'll see have things progress as I have to arrange to see Geoff a couple of times before the end of the year and looking forward to rejoining the club next year....that is if they'll have me back ?
 

Darryl

New member
Just a quicky, will respond in full later. Why did Geoff tell you to take the pin out? I've shot the Titan with a clear lens with orange circular retitcles added and also the bog standard clear lens with the pin. I've reverted back to the pin of late but not 100% sure if it's a good thing.
 

Bowselecta

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Hi Darryl,
I believe that it was due to the fact that when I was on the aim section I needed to focus on the gold within the ring of the sight but at times was focussing on the pin.
TBH I noticed this more on Sunday at 30 yards when I was holding/looking at the pin in the gold and not the outer ring and if I remember correctly I just held on the gold at 20 yds and looked to keep the ring on the gold and didn't notice the pin although I could see the orange speck in the middle if that makes sense ?
 

Darryl

New member
Hi Darryl,
I believe that it was due to the fact that when I was on the aim section I needed to focus on the gold within the ring of the sight but at times was focussing on the pin.
TBH I noticed this more on Sunday at 30 yards when I was holding/looking at the pin in the gold and not the outer ring and if I remember correctly I just held on the gold at 20 yds and looked to keep the ring on the gold and didn't notice the pin although I could see the orange speck in the middle if that makes sense ?
Yep I get your point. Over focusing/thinking about the shot instead of letting the brain do it's job ;) The thing is that I've heard so many theories on using open apertures to using pins that I don't know which is best myself. Kisik Lee does seem to recommend using an open aperture as a starting point and then moving to a pin at a later date as it helps with aiming off. I've gone back to using the pin but have found at times I over concentrate on where the pin is.
 

geoffretired

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Aiming can do two things for the archer.1) It can improve their groups, by helping the archer direct the good shots with more consistency.
2)It can overpower the shot process, as the mind becomes focussed on the wobbles of the sight and forgets what to do about drawing and executing.
If the sight pin is staying inside the red/gold and the arrows land in every colour as far out as the black,then the shot process could be suffering from the archer over aiming and not executing as well as they might.Usually, the finish is delayed as the archer struggles to get a better aim.Often, the longer the struggle the worse the aim...........Some archers notice that when the shots go without any delay, they score better.I guess they didn't give themselves time to over aim!!
If you use an open ring sight, it is possible with practice, to look at the gold and almost ignore the ring.If the gold is visible through the ring, the ring can seem so faint that ,even if it wobbles, the wobbles don't register so much. The archer can focus on finishing the shot as they have planned.The aim may be no steadier than before, but the shot process is carried out better.When the shot process is improved, the aim can become steadier,too.Aiming is built on the posture at full draw and the quality of that final draw. Trying to steady the aim alone isn't really much help.
When the shot process is well established,the archer might try something else; a smaller ring possibly, or a dot inside a ring. If changes are made, they should, in my opinion,be made bearing in mind the possible effects. If the dot or smaller ring, confirms that the aim is looking good, then the shot process should proceed with more confidence and more success.If the dot or smaller ring magnifies/attracts attention to the appearance of any wobbles, it could destroy the confidence built up previously and leave the archer back where they started.
Top archers have such a solid shot process and such a steady aim, that the two add together and produce top scores.A steady aim is confirmation of a good shot process.
Archers, at club level let's say, who are still learning and trying to improve, can find their unsteady aim subtracts from their shot process, making learning more difficult than it needs to be.
 

Xlnt

New member
Keep the faith Bo, relax and spend some time just shooting for fun. As you know I am slowed down a bit by MS, so I am often the last on the line, but being a belligerent old git I refuse to give myself the added pressure of being rushed. We shoot because it's fun. If we are ever on the same shooting line I garantee that you will end up waiting for me lol. Take care and enjoy shooting. Oh and if all else fails you could always come over to the dark side lol :)
 

BAzz

Member
FWIW, I had a circle decal on my scope and couldn't get on with it AT ALL.. I felt like I wasn't actually aiming AT anything. I got the fibre optic kit from merlin and it feels so much more comfortable. Still shooting like crap, but it feels better :)
 

Bowselecta

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Keep the faith Bo, relax and spend some time just shooting for fun. As you know I am slowed down a bit by MS, so I am often the last on the line, but being a belligerent old git I refuse to give myself the added pressure of being rushed. We shoot because it's fun. If we are ever on the same shooting line I garantee that you will end up waiting for me lol. Take care and enjoy shooting. Oh and if all else fails you could always come over to the dark side lol :)
Hi Dude,
I hope all is well with you and yours.
I pinged some arrows over at Perris Archery this morning as had taken son to a workshop with Liam Grimwood ( I must say he is a top bloke) and did enjoy it
so will keep it going and even paid the club membership today as well.
Coming to the darkside......hmmm not just yet me thinks.....I think the force is strong with this old duffer !!!!!
Paul
 

Bowselecta

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FWIW, I had a circle decal on my scope and couldn't get on with it AT ALL.. I felt like I wasn't actually aiming AT anything. I got the fibre optic kit from merlin and it feels so much more comfortable. Still shooting like crap, but it feels better :)
Hi Bazz,
I have heard that using a fibre optic (kit) is good.
"Still shooting like crap" yep been there and not wanting to go back there !
Paul
 

BAzz

Member
The way I look at it, once I can't blame the equipment any more it'll make me improve my technique :)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 

Bowselecta

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Hi All,
Off to see Geoff tomorrow (29th).
Things haven't gone as well as I would like...I seem to be pushing the bow arm straight and getting twanged...it more a dull thud as the string gets behind the brace which is better than the full on slap and bruise. I more I try to combat it the worse it seems to get...normally at the moment it's the last arrow of 3 but have been getting it wrong on the first, it's me for sure and I know Geoff will put that right in an instant.
Getting better with the pull through after anchor on the clicker but will leave it with Geoff to see.
Hopefully tomorrow will be as nice as today, it's glorious here in East Herts at the moment and I'll update you after seeing "coach" Geoff. :)
Paul
 

geoffretired

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Heehee, no pressure then! I shall have to go for the quick fix, if it has to be done instantly. That involves putting the string on the other way round so it bends away from the arm during the power stroke.
Hope our weather is as good as today, flat calm, and sunshine...no cloud.
 
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