The great foam shortage of 2013

DavidH

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I'm with you David
Thanks Raven;)

I accept that straw can be difficult for compounds, especially high poundage. I have in the past been the man who had to hang 3 or 4 carpet tiles to prevent compounds hitting the middle stand support, but bosses need to be provided for all disciplines. I have no problem with layered foam (apart from aesthetics;) ) Solid foam is a nightmare for wooden arrows but probably ideal for compounds. I don't recall any of this being a problem a few years ago but at that time we had very few compound archers in the club.

If my club went over to solid foam throughout, Id have to revert aiming for the green.
 

Raven's_Eye

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Ironman
I could be wrong but I'm sure someone told me that when foam (maybe layered) got wet it was awful at stopping arrows.

I think compounds are becoming more of a problem (from a boss POV) is that as well as all the gadgets that are making them expremly accurate, is the speed cams that are being used so the same poundage is delivering more power because the arrows are faster. I'm betting a compound archer will correct me as I know little of compounds.
 

bimble

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Wet, or if there are layers of softer foam, or once you've shot the middle a few times...

I could be wrong but I'm sure someone told me that when foam (maybe layered) got wet it was awful at stopping arrows.


If you look near the bottom of those arrows you can even see a wooden one from a longbow!!
 

DavidH

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I could be wrong but I'm sure someone told me that when foam (maybe layered) got wet it was awful at stopping arrows.

I think compounds are becoming more of a problem (from a boss POV) is that as well as all the gadgets that are making them expremly accurate, is the speed cams that are being used so the same poundage is delivering more power because the arrows are faster. I'm betting a compound archer will correct me as I know little of compounds.
Just to play devils advocate, longbow archers only have themselves to blame. At most clubs we are very much the minority and the targets on the field will reflect the balance of the different disciplines. I do however wonder at the logic of some compound archers ( I said some before I get shot down!) who insist on shooting at the middle during practice, instead of offsetting the face.
 

bimble

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Will admit, I've always found it's the slightly less accurate bowstyles* who wish to use a full 122 face on a boss (so has to be centred) at 20-40yds (novices) and at longer distances (experienced). On the few occasions when I've managed to get reduced faces that can be off-set they are always removed by people who would be "getting misses" without the full face.

Short of having compound only bosses (so bits that aren't the middle are shot out) and non-compound bosses (where the middle is shot out) and then rotating them there's not a lot a club can do.



* - in this case I'm talking about recurves
 
Our club use a re-stackable layered foam boss built in andover. We have found that as long as you tighten them down a little before using them, they will stop a protour with tungsten piles from a 60lb compound no problem.
The biggest problem we have found is that due to the difficulty getting said arrows out of some straw bosses, a lot of archers use silicone lubricant, which in itself causes problems whe later shooting on foam bosses when they get wet.

Even wet our bosses tend to stop the arrow within 4-6 inches of the fletchings, and they have now done 2 complete outdoor seasons(3 days shooting a week) and are just finishing their second indoor season(2 days a week shooting at least 5doz per archer each night). In fact a protour from compound doesn't even go through
We have yet to re-tighten or re-arrange the foam layers.
As for storage, the legs can be removed and folded for storage, 36 of them plus other eqipment in one 20' container.
And the best bit is other than being kinder to your arrows (and your back when pulling them out), they also work out cheaper than a straw boss and stand.
 
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DavidH

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Will admit, I've always found it's the slightly less accurate bowstyles* who wish to use a full 122 face on a boss (so has to be centred) at 20-40yds (novices) and at longer distances (experienced). On the few occasions when I've managed to get reduced faces that can be off-set they are always removed by people who would be "getting misses" without the full face.

Short of having compound only bosses (so bits that aren't the middle are shot out) and non-compound bosses (where the middle is shot out) and then rotating them there's not a lot a club can do.



* - in this case I'm talking about recurves
Well they wouldn't be very disciplined archers if they removed them without asking , would they? When your practising you don't really need anything more than something to focus on, could be just a piece of paper. if your shooting for a score, you would use the face that's appropriate for the round.
 

DavidH

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I can see this thread becoming as long as "shock at the top" (though hopefully with slightly better good humour) ;) I don't shoot indoors any more as its not really ideal for longbows. (my choice not the club's) We have always used straw as its the easiest boss to store and set up. I cant recall anyone getting upset about shooting into straw, whatever discipline. The targets are always offset and the bosses obviously get rotated every time they are brought out.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
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Just to play devils advocate, longbow archers only have themselves to blame.
How do you mean?

I don't shoot indoors any more as its not really ideal for longbows. (my choice not the club's) We have always used straw as its the easiest boss to store and set up. I cant recall anyone getting upset about shooting into straw, whatever discipline. The targets are always offset and the bosses obviously get rotated every time they are brought out.
I don't agree that indoors isn't ideal for longbows, ok doesn't feel as good as outside as there is less space, and few rounds. Buts its good for practicing form and the smaller targets concentrate the mind. But saying that we've been having our indoor season outdoors this year due to range taking longer than expected to build and I've been quite enjoying it.
 

DavidH

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Raven, as I say, I'm playing devils advocate. We've let ourselves become a minority. We don't fight our corner like other disciplines do. We are seen as slightly quirky individuals, akin to the Tolpuddle Martyrs. If we dare suggest to someone that they should try or take up longbow other club members will step in very quickly and override us. I exaggerate only a little, but that's often been my experience.

As for indoor, I've made it my choice. If we rest our bows against a wall between ends, the gap suddenly closes and we are squeezed out of the line.

Tell me I'm wrong;)
 

Raven's_Eye

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I agree that we are seen as a quirky lot, and that in most clubs esp indoors longbows are a minority. As for fighting our corner I don't agree with that, but thats down to the individual archer. As most Lb archers sem to be elderly gents they might let things go cause they can't be bothered arguing. What I do find though that tough LB are generally a minority they are the ones that come out any weather to shoot.
Though saying that our club is sending in 11 applications to the Lb shoot at Kedleston hall.
 

Furface

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.... We've let ourselves become a minority. We don't fight our corner like other disciplines do. ...
Agreed. In the recent January Challenge (results coming shortly), which is probably the only "mass" sample of indoor club activity (as opposed to tournament entry) Longbows only represented 10% of entries, slightly fewer than Barebow (11%). Given the amount of voice Compounds have here and throughout archery, I think most would be slightly surprised to find that their entry was a massive......15%.
 

DavidH

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Agreed. In the recent January Challenge (results coming shortly), which is probably the only "mass" sample of indoor club activity (as opposed to tournament entry) Longbows only represented 10% of entries, slightly fewer than Barebow (11%). Given the amount of voice Compounds have here and throughout archery, I think most would be slightly surprised to find that their entry was a massive......15%.
Very interesting statistics which need no further comment;)
 

Raven's_Eye

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Ironman
Agreed. In the recent January Challenge (results coming shortly), which is probably the only "mass" sample of indoor club activity (as opposed to tournament entry) Longbows only represented 10% of entries, slightly fewer than Barebow (11%). Given the amount of voice Compounds have here and throughout archery, I think most would be slightly surprised to find that their entry was a massive......15%.
This is not very surprising, as an indoor thing lost of longbows sit out the indoor season for competing or revert to other bows sharing David's view of them not being for indoor use. With the rising compound numbers its not really surprising as they are supported in olympic and paralympic and the archer can score highier with less practice (not meaning to offend any compound archer but put a lb beginner and a compound beginner together and compound will outscore nearly every time). So for the cyber generation who are used to instant results its not surprising that compounds are more appealing to most.
 

DavidH

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This is not very surprising, as an indoor thing lost of longbows sit out the indoor season for competing or revert to other bows sharing David's view of them not being for indoor use. With the rising compound numbers its not really surprising as they are supported in olympic and paralympic and the archer can score highier with less practice (not meaning to offend any compound archer but put a lb beginner and a compound beginner together and compound will outscore nearly every time). So for the cyber generation who are used to instant results its not surprising that compounds are more appealing to most.
I saw those statistics the other way Raven, compounds were ONLY 15%. That's 85% that were'nt
 

bimble

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it depends on the club... mine is one of the largest clubs (nearly 200 members) and we have 4 compounders. There are nearly 20 longbowers (or at least those that own and occasionally shoot longbows) and the rest a recurvers. No barebowers (AFAIK).
 

Purpleworm

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it depends on the club... mine is one of the largest clubs (nearly 200 members) and we have 4 compounders. There are nearly 20 longbowers (or at least those that own and occasionally shoot longbows) and the rest a recurvers. No barebowers (AFAIK).
4.5 if you count Colin
 

jimlee

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This is not very surprising, as an indoor thing lost of longbows sit out the indoor season for competing or revert to other bows sharing David's view of them not being for indoor use. With the rising compound numbers its not really surprising as they are supported in olympic and paralympic and the archer can score highier with less practice (not meaning to offend any compound archer but put a lb beginner and a compound beginner together and compound will outscore nearly every time). So for the cyber generation who are used to instant results its not surprising that compounds are more appealing to most.
Bugger, must have missed that when I was watching the archery from London 2012:darkside:
 
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