The Old bloke's thought of the day:

Old Bloke

New member
The important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle, the essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well. ( A bronze medal is but a gateway to silver or gold afterall)
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
In which case, a second class score is but a tunnel to GMB.Could be a long tunnel,too.And there may even be a light at the end of it.
 

Stash

New member
Sorry, going to disagree. In my life I've had a small number of triumphs, and quite a lot of struggle.

Struggle sucks. I'll take the triumph every time.
 

Old Bloke

New member
But did you not learn how to triumph from the struggles that you have faced? Without the struggle would you have known how to triumph?
 

Stash

New member
But did you not learn how to triumph from the struggles that you have faced? Without the struggle would you have known how to triumph?
Yes, of course, but your thought is that the struggle is the "important" and "essential" thing.

No.The triumph is the essential thing - otherwise, why bother with the struggle in the first place?

the essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well
I would be much happier with a lotto win than I am looking at my pile of losing tickets.
 

Stash

New member
And before anyone says "life is a journey, not a destination", again, no. Life is a series of journeys to a series of destinations, and as anyone who has traveled with their small children will know, being on the journey is not nearly half the fun of arriving at the destination.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Stash, I see what you are saying and partly agree. However a triumph is of no value without some sort of struggle leading up to it. For example, winning a competition where the others are not good enough to beat you isn't really worth anything.The struggle to beat some that are of equal ability can make the triumph at the end an enjoyable outcome.
 

Stash

New member
This is one of those discussions that could go on forever, so I hope we keep it light... :D

You have to qualify "journey", "destination", "struggle", "triumph".

Sometimes they are the same thing. Sometimes they can be desirable, sometimes not. Sometimes they are important, sometimes not.

How about a war? Would you prefer a quick, easy victory over a weak aggressor, or a long difficult struggle against a stronger one ending with a second place finish?

How about a world archery championship? Would you like to shoot a 149 in the finals and come in second to someone who shot a 150, or would you prefer to shoot a 145 against someone who touched off his trigger a bit early, missed and shot a 139? I'd take the second option.

However a triumph is of no value without some sort of struggle leading up to it.
I absolutely disagree. Again, take the lotto win, for example. I would take the same pleasure from winning with a ticket I found on the ground as I would from one I paid for with my hard-earned wages.

Granted, in some cases what you say has some truth to it. A hard fought sporting win is more satisfying than an easy win, but the distinction I'm making is that a hard fought loss is not anywhere close to being as satisfying as an easy win.

But here's the important distinction - YOU are the one who defines the triumph for yourself, not I. If YOU decide that participating in the game and performing well is more important to you than the end result compared to others, then you HAVE triumphed. The struggle IS the triumph.
 

Shirt

Well-known member
Pick your goal.

Know you're going to achieve it. (NB: Knowing is different to believing, and also extremely different to hoping)

Enjoy the ride to get there.
 
J

josh 77

Guest
It's an interesting thought, OB.
Pick your goal.

Know you're going to achieve it. (NB: Knowing is different to believing, and also extremely different to hoping)

Enjoy the ride to get there.
I've got to say - when I get MB (and beyond) however long it takes, I will definitely look back on the journey and smile/break into a hysterical fit of laughter :rotfl:

I may not enjoy the struggles at times but like people say, it makes the prize all the more satisfying and you yourself are tougher for confronting all the struggles and beating them!
 

fluffchucker

New member
And before anyone says "life is a journey, not a destination", again, no. Life is a series of journeys to a series of destinations, and as anyone who has traveled with their small children will know, being on the journey is not nearly half the fun of arriving at the destination.
Are we there yet...................are we there yet...................are we there yet
 

philhoney

New member
Hi,
I hate travelling. Car (with me driving or as a passenger) bus (ex bus driver) train (once only, never again) plane (I was glad to get out at 3,000 ft). If it lasts more than 10mins I get bored.
On the other hand I am happy spending hours solving a problem or making something.
As far as archery is concerned I am just as contented working out how to make tabs, bracers, sights and then making a batch of them as I am shooting my bow.
When my age and arthritis is taken into consideration I will never be a top class archer but I love helping others to do better and you'll see a great big smile on my face when they do well and an even bigger smile when they beat my score.
I agree life is a journey but you can decide if you want to be a passenger or take control yourself.
Phil
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think Stash, you are right; we do need to define what we mean by Victory. The dictionary definitions don't always match what we ,as individuals, think.
Victory in battle has so many spin offs that it can be nothing but loss for so many, even if they are defined after the event, as being on the winning side.
I think like Phil, the struggle to get something made etc. is difficult to see as a struggle at the time. So much of what is going on, is forwards looking and seeing the finish before it is reached.Often ,when I have made something, even when it works, and even when I am proud inside myself for making a good job of it, there is a feeling of some sadness that the struggle is over.
 

Stash

New member
I think Stash, you are right; we do need to define what we mean by Victory.


.......... there is a feeling of some sadness that the struggle is over.
Exactly. Some people have a very simple definition of "victory" (I'm one of them). It's no more complicated than the achievement of a goal.

Many Olympic champions go through severe depression following a Gold Medal. They have reached a goal that has taken many years of struggle, and following the brief period of celebration, they are unprepared for the reality that suddenly they have gone from being national heroes to people who are very, very good at doing something that is of no practical use to anyone else. All they can think of is "now what?". Some nations have a program to help retiring athletes get back into the real world.

This is especially common among soldiers returning from combat. The transition back to to "normal life" is very difficult.

The solution is to set the next goal and start a new struggle.

A series of journeys and destinations. :D
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, I can understand that, the greater the struggle the greater the loss after the cheering dies down.
For me, victory implies someone else has to not win.So I might make something and achieve my goal without using "victory" to describe it. I have won a few races in my time. The strange thing is I never saw the wins as victories. I enjoyed coming first, don't get me wrong, I was delighted at the time,too.The race was the fun bit though.
 
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