To Click or not to Click.......

ssoanes

New member
I have been shooting for about two years, have been using a clicker with good effect, but still struggle to get the shot off quickly. Shooting outside on Sunday this was really noticable, if i managed to come upto draw, and pull the shot through then great, but i was struggling with the wind blustering around me, if i was up to long then i was dropping shots or could not hold on the target. i was shooting a gents FITA.

At 50 yards the wind was picking up and the score was going down so for the last end i thought i would shoot without the clicker and my score went up, once i had got used to it and the last distance was OK too. What was noticed was that i was drawing 1/2" further than when i use the clicker and stuggling, i am now confused, how come i struggle with 1/2" less draw and is it worth shooting without the clicker, how many good archers do? i realise it adds consistancy, but you have to be good to get benifit!
 


TJ Mason

Soaring
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
What was noticed was that i was drawing 1/2" further than when i use the clicker and struggling, i am now confused, how come i struggle with 1/2" less draw
Shot anticipation. You're slowing down, on tenterhooks waiting for the clicker to drop. This is a result of letting the clicker take control of the shot (which, unfortunately, is what a lot of "experts" advise you to do).

Move the clicker back 1/2" to where you were shooting well and treat the click as a signal that you've reached your optimum draw length. Then shoot a quarter second later when you're happy that you're on aim and everything's right. This isn't a quick and easy fix, BTW - bedding in such a change will take hundreds of practice shots.
 


whiz

New member
You ARE allowed to move your clicker to where you shoot comfortably, you know...

A clicker isn't essential to shoot well. It is however essential to shoot your best.
 


mf78

New member
Shot anticipation. You're slowing down, on tenterhooks waiting for the clicker to drop. This is a result of letting the clicker take control of the shot (which, unfortunately, is what a lot of "experts" advise you to do).

Move the clicker back 1/2" to where you were shooting well and treat the click as a signal that you've reached your optimum draw length. Then shoot a quarter second later when you're happy that you're on aim and everything's right. This isn't a quick and easy fix, BTW - bedding in such a change will take hundreds of practice shots.
You are right about probably slowing down and locking up in anticipation of the shot. Its a problem I have to fight against. It may be also that the OP is drawing to the clicker, rather than setting the clicker at the right position for their draw length. However, pausing after the clicker has dropped is not the way to use one! When the clicker clicks, you either release on it or come down - no pause.

The way round the problem is to make sure the clicker is in the right place first. Then the last part of the draw - to anchor and then execution - should be one positive continuous motion. Doesnt need to be fast, though that can be effective, but you need to feel the power building up until it clicks, not slowing down and stopping. It gets much harder in the wind as you feel like you're being blown around all over and this stops you from carrying through the movement for fear of being off-target when the clicker drops, but IMHO you get better results from keeping the draw fluid and accepting a few shots will be blown off than locking up and trying to hold steady and struggling with the clicker. If the sight is blown way off centre when the clicker drops, you come down and try again. Its less tiring this way than holding for ages and trying to force the arrow through the clicker after having locked up at anchor. It takes practice of course, but is well worth it. It may turn out that shooting like this means the clicker is placed 1 or 2mm closer to you than before or it drops too quick - a sign that an archer maybe wasn't shooting with a continuous action before.
 


Loomer

New member
I have been shooting for about two years, have been using a clicker with good effect, but still struggle to get the shot off quickly.
How long have you been using the clicker, and when was the last time you got someone to help you set its position?

It sounds like you've extended your natural draw length, but the clicker hasn't been moved to suit, so you've had to shorten your draw to match the clicker - this will always cause problems, as your body won't be in its natural full-draw position.

Get someone to watch where you draw the arrow to without the clicker (making sure they watch for a few arrows, not just the first one). So long as this is consistent, get them to set the clicker so there is 3-4mm (1/8 inch) to go when you reach full draw. You should find the clicker much easier to use there...
 


Welsh minx

New member
Keeping pulling thru!

I've had little fights with the clicker on windy days!

Best thing to do is know in your mind that your draw length is perfect and you'll pull thru nice and smooth, click and gone, and we have nothing to worry about.

Shoot to your ability not to the clicker, its just a reference mark for the arrows.

Piece of :cake:

Bec
 


TJ Mason

Soaring
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
However, pausing after the clicker has dropped is not the way to use one! When the clicker clicks, you either release on it or come down - no pause.
That's one theory, but I've seen more people go wrong with it than go right. The best shooters I've seen have a brief but definite pause of a consistent length (about a quarter of a second), while they check that everything's right before shooting.
 


mf78

New member
Yes I'm interested to know who also. Havent seen any top shooters pause after the click myself. Not on good shots anyway :)
 


Big.Dave

New member
The clicker is a draw check it gives you infomation. If you pull through it with ease on one shot and then not at all on the next that's the clicker telling you you haven't prepared your shot correctly up to that point and you need to come down and reset. If you are shooting in the wind and under normal conditions the sight would be floating on the gold but its not because the wind if phisicaly moving you off the gold your scores are going to be affected and it doesn't matter how good you are:target:
 


ssoanes

New member
You are right about probably slowing down and locking up in anticipation of the shot. Its a problem I have to fight against. It may be also that the OP is drawing to the clicker, rather than setting the clicker at the right position for their draw length. However, pausing after the clicker has dropped is not the way to use one! When the clicker clicks, you either release on it or come down - no pause.
mf78 - I loose at the click with no pause or come down, but that is easier said than done!
 


ssoanes

New member
The way round the problem is to make sure the clicker is in the right place first. Then the last part of the draw - to anchor and then execution - should be one positive continuous motion. Doesnt need to be fast, though that can be effective, but you need to feel the power building up until it clicks, not slowing down and stopping. It gets much harder in the wind as you feel like you're being blown around all over and this stops you from carrying through the movement for fear of being off-target when the clicker drops, but IMHO you get better results from keeping the draw fluid and accepting a few shots will be blown off than locking up and trying to hold steady and struggling with the clicker. If the sight is blown way off centre when the clicker drops, you come down and try again. Its less tiring this way than holding for ages and trying to force the arrow through the clicker after having locked up at anchor. It takes practice of course, but is well worth it. It may turn out that shooting like this means the clicker is placed 1 or 2mm closer to you than before or it drops too quick - a sign that an archer maybe wasn't shooting with a continuous action before.

I have been using a clicker for about 18 months, i have been trying to adjust my draw anyway as i tend to bring my bow shoulder up, so have been drawing out right up and over, then coming down to settle as a coach told me this would help drop my shoulder, and it does seem to help, as a result my draw length had increased by 1/4" within the last month, clicker adjusted to compensate.

Its the holding and waiting that causes the dropped shots, practice practice practice!
 


ssoanes

New member
If you are shooting in the wind and under normal conditions the sight would be floating on the gold but its not because the wind if phisicaly moving you off the gold your scores are going to be affected and it doesn't matter how good you are:target:
Big Dave, yes i understand, i think there are lots of factors, i think my 90m was acceptable, 70m was terrible and 50m a disaster, until i stopped using the clicker. The wind was much stronger at 50m so this was not helping at all. The confusion exists (to me anyway!) because when i stopped using the clicker, my draw increased and the shot improved! I think i need to have a go in calm conditions! I always suffer in windy conditions, but it seems more than most!
 


Big.Dave

New member
Big Dave, yes i understand, i think there are lots of factors, i think my 90m was acceptable, 70m was terrible and 50m a disaster, until i stopped using the clicker. The wind was much stronger at 50m so this was not helping at all. The confusion exists (to me anyway!) because when i stopped using the clicker, my draw increased and the shot improved! I think i need to have a go in calm conditions! I always suffer in windy conditions, but it seems more than most!
Ok looking at your profile you are listed as first class that means you should have a good idea about what you are doing but to go to the next level you need to get your form spot on and a good mental plan to back it up, so you can spot what is causing inconsistancy in you form and work those issues out of your system. focus on form and process. Avoid focusing on outcome because this will be part of your problem.
 


ssoanes

New member
Ok looking at your profile you are listed as first class that means you should have a good idea about what you are doing but to go to the next level you need to get your form spot on and a good mental plan to back it up, so you can spot what is causing inconsistancy in you form and work those issues out of your system. focus on form and process. Avoid focusing on outcome because this will be part of your problem.
Good point, yes i have one BM score this year also. I had (wrongly) assumed that my indoor archery would transfer to my outdoor archery, indoor current handicap is 24 but Sundays FITA was a 42! last year outdoor handicap ended up as 33 although my best rounds, were probably 60 yard rounds, with some occasional good 80 yard rounds. This year the plan is to stick with the long 100yard or 90m rounds.
 


Big.Dave

New member
Good point, yes i have one BM score this year also. I had (wrongly) assumed that my indoor archery would transfer to my outdoor archery, indoor current handicap is 24 but Sundays FITA was a 42! last year outdoor handicap ended up as 33 although my best rounds, were probably 60 yard rounds, with some occasional good 80 yard rounds. This year the plan is to stick with the long 100yard or 90m rounds.

Me to I fell in love with the clicker when with the second end of using it shot a 9 out 10 arrows in the gold a 90m. 10 arrow ends you say when it's good you keep shooting them!!

about your comment.

My opinion if you do that you'll still be crap at 50m so put some time in there as for 30m should be ok if you have been shooting nothing but portsmouths for the indoor season.
 


ssoanes

New member
My opinion if you do that you'll still be crap at 50m so put some time in there as for 30m should be ok if you have been shooting nothing but portsmouths for the indoor season.
Thanks! yes Portsmouth and FITA 18, don't seem to have the same issue getting the shot off indoors, but then again, errors indoors don't show up as much and you can get away with the odd bad release.

Thanks for your advice, and to everyone else also!
 


whiz

New member
The best shooters I've seen have a brief but definite pause of a consistent length (about a quarter of a second), while they check that everything's right before shooting.
Where do these best shooters hang out?

Definately not in any recent World Cup or Olympic event I've seen footage of.

In fact, I've never seen anyone do it, including the top Koreans that I've personally witnessed shooting, or the UK, French, USA or Australian team members that I've stood behind and photographed.

I'm finding this statement somewhat .... dubious.
 


TJ Mason

Soaring
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
I wasn't going to post again on this thread, since several responses reminded me of why I and many others have decided to steer clear of clicker threads. Posting on this thread was a mistake and I didn't intend to compound it. But after several nudges, I've agreed to make one reply.

Currently, there is a widespread opinion in recurve archery that the clicker should be allowed to trigger the shot - the archer just glides through the clicker and automatically releases on the click, with a surprise release.

In my opinion, this is mistaken. I believe this mistake has two sources:
- an incomplete observation of what the top recurve archers do;
- an attempt to apply the compound technique of the "surprise release" to recurve shooting.

The top archers appear to glide through the clicker and release automatically on the click. But this just an appearance. The give-away is that those archers occasionally come through the clicker and let down if they're not happy with the shot. How could they possibly do that if they're shooting automatically on the click?
What's actually happening is that the clicker is going off and the archer is then deciding (not necessarily consciously) whether or not the shot feels right. The top archers have practiced until they know the feel of a good shot, and it's this feel that makes the archer decide. The click is a decision point, not a trigger. The clicker provides information, not instruction. At all times, the archer stays in control of the shot, even though that control may not be explicit and conscious.
If you want to get a similar level of control, you must absolutely NOT train yourself to shoot on the click. This is why I suggested a quarter-second pause after the click to check that you're happy with the shot. This pause will reduce with experience and increased ability, but it should never disappear. You should always be able to come through the clicker and let down.
Another big problem of shooting on the click is that it can disguise a tendency to flinch. It can even induce that tendency.

The surprise release is a great technique for compound shooting, but in my opinion really isn't applicable to recurve shooting.
When shooting with a release aid, nothing in the archer should change at the point of release - the archer can and should keep exactly the same muscle usage before, during and after the loose. The surprise release technique helps the archer to do this.
When releasing with fingers, a change of muscle usage is unavoidable, since the archer must relax the forearm muscles to relax the string fingers. Does the surprise release work in this case? I'd say not. I know it didn't work for me, since I found that I wasn't just relaxing the forearm muscles on the click - I was relaxing the drawing muscles and bow shoulder muscles too. This problem wasn't at all obvious to me or to observers, and took a lot of work to find. I suspect it's very widespread.
In my experience-based opinion, the recurve archer should NOT train for a surprise release, since few of us can really manage the trick of automatically relaxing just the forearm muscles while not relaxing the other muscles in response to an external stimulus. Better to keep control of the shot, feel whether or not it's right, and decide whether or not to release. With that approach, the archer is better able to continue the muscle usage of the draw while relaxing just the string forearm muscles.
 


Top