Very short range.

Kernowlad

Member
Most of the field shoot went well yesterday; my distance judging improved and at 20-50 yards all
was good; over 50 and I underestimated twice but that?s easily sortable.

However whoever designed the course clearly decided to make life very tricky for compounds: fair enough as we?re all evil.

Most targets had the compound peg a heck of a lot further than the red marker (or squeezed between a tree or even shooting through a curved old one!) but two super short range ones had the compound marker way closer; on one I was not far off touching it with the long rod! Anyway I was rubbish at them; clearly needs some thought. Some suggested setting the sight to 40 or more yards (aiming at them resulted in a very low arrow) as there is no sight/eyeline convergence.

Any tips? I?ll experiment in the garden but any short cuts would be good!

Funny learning form form form, repeat repeat repeat on target archery then throwing it all out of the window squeezing around trees, onto very uneven ground or even kneeling; great fun!!
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
At very short range, the sight needs to go really low. If you don't do that, the arrow will land low because there is no real distance for it to "catch up".( convergence) If ,for example you used indoor setting your arrow would land about 6 inches low (eye to chin length)
If you draw a little sketch of the side view, you will see the eye line level to the target. The arrow will need to point up to the target from under your chin something like the angle it makes at 100yds
Nearly touching with the long rod is about 6 feet away? A rough scale drawing 1 inch to 1 foot gives a six inch horizontal eye line. A 6" eye to chin will be half inch eye to chin distance on the drawing . and the arrow has to point up to target from below the chin. The sight is roughly 3 feel away, so half way along your horizontal eye line. The distance to the arrow from the sight is 1/4 inch roughly. 1/4 of a foot in real life or 3 inches up from the arrow. If you measure 3 inches up from your arrow when it is on the rest you will see where the sight centre needs to be. The scope body will put that about 1/2" closer to the arrow.
 


Kernowlad

Member
Thanks Geoff. I even tried aiming down the arrow but it didn?t help! All good challenges though but slightly unexpected!
 


bimble

Active member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
normally, around the 10-15m range, with a compound, the sightmarks level out and then start to going back down the sightbar. For instance, my 2m sightmark is about the same as my 55m sightmark. This is due to the fact that your eye level is much higher than the plane of the arrow, becoming an overriding factor in the sightmark.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Unexpected is the right word. It catches most of us out first time.
Imagine shooting vertically down a cliff face, to a target 60y below.
Set the sight for 60y and you will miss by several yards. Set the sight for 20 y and you will still miss by several feet. Set it higher than the 20y setting and you might get close. Set the sight to the same distance from the arrow that the arrow nock is from your eye at full draw and you are likely to hit what you aimed at.
 


Timid Toad

Moderator
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Ironman
Happens with recurve too - called rollover. My 5yd sightmark is the same as my 25yd mark - that's on the flat, then adjust for angle from there.
 


4d4m

Member
Happens with recurve too - called rollover. My 5yd sightmark is the same as my 25yd mark - that's on the flat, then adjust for angle from there.
It happens for any sighted ballistic projectile system. Rifles, bows, pistols, crossbows, cannon, mortars, ballistae.

The projectile describes an arced path through the air ("trajectory"). It would be a perfect parabola without the effect of drag.

The sight line is straight. So it will either* cross the trajectory at two points, or it will touch it at the zenith. That is assuming the sight line is horizontal; shooting up and down changes things somewhat, as Geoff describes above.

If the sight is set to the zenith, the arrow will impact below the aim point at closer distances and longer distances than the sight is set to (zero distance).

If the sight is set so that it crosses the trajectory twice, then closer than the "near zero" the arrow will hit low. Further than the "far zero" the arrow will also hit low. Between the two the arrow will hit high.

The most extreme form of this experienced by gap shooters who use the arrow point as a "sight". Their "point on" distance is the far zero. The near zero in this case will actually be so close that the arrow point is in contact with the target! However, and contrary to popular culture, this is in fact not "point blank range"! That term actually refers to the distance that the projectile hits where the sights are set.

From my relatively limited archery experience, the top of trajectory for my bows seems to be around 10-12 yards, though I have not done much experimentation. For my .177 air rifles it is between 25 and 30 yards.

* Edited to add: there is a third case where it doesn't touch at all so the arrow will hit low at all distances.
 


MaryDonna

New member
You can try the thumb release aid to improve your accuracy. This product is more power generate to your arrow. This product gives to you much better result.
 


AndyW

Active member
Most of the field shoot went well yesterday; my distance judging improved and at 20-50 yards all
was good; over 50 and I underestimated twice but that?s easily sortable.

However whoever designed the course clearly decided to make life very tricky for compounds: fair enough as we?re all evil.

Most targets had the compound peg a heck of a lot further than the red marker (or squeezed between a tree or even shooting through a curved old one!) but two super short range ones had the compound marker way closer; on one I was not far off touching it with the long rod! Anyway I was rubbish at them; clearly needs some thought. Some suggested setting the sight to 40 or more yards (aiming at them resulted in a very low arrow) as there is no sight/eyeline convergence.

Any tips? I?ll experiment in the garden but any short cuts would be good!

Funny learning form form form, repeat repeat repeat on target archery then throwing it all out of the window squeezing around trees, onto very uneven ground or even kneeling; great fun!!
Did you consider taking the long rod off, leaning forward and just putting the point an inch away and just twanging the arrow in? But seriously, your marks will roll over so you just need to equate small distances to their long counterpart. Just carry a card round with something like 5 = 30, 2 = 50 etc. Anything around 5 yrds I will shoot as if it was 30 as I'm still in the barebow mindset and can't be bothered, I just fall back on instinctive. Pretty useful to not be a slave to the sight.
 


bimble

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Did you consider taking the long rod off, leaning forward and just putting the point an inch away and just twanging the arrow in? But seriously, your marks will roll over so you just need to equate small distances to their long counterpart. Just carry a card round with something like 5 = 30, 2 = 50 etc. Anything around 5 yrds I will shoot as if it was 30 as I'm still in the barebow mindset and can't be bothered, I just fall back on instinctive. Pretty useful to not be a slave to the sight.
all I will say is, unless your arrow is only an inch long, please don't try that at home....
 


steve

Member
Imagine shooting vertically down a cliff face, to a target 60y below.
....... where gravitational deflection is obviated. You have to remember that gravity is acting on any projectile all the time it's airborne, however fast it's travelling. I remember being in a physics class at school where a guy couldn't grasp that a bullet is slowing down the moment it leaves the barrel. The record breaking sniper shots by Commonwealth soldiers in Afghanistan are astounding. The current record is over 3,500 metres by a Canadian sniper. The bullet was in the air for over 6 seconds. However, the details of this shot are sketchy. The previous record (by Corporal of Horse(the equivalent of Sargeant) Craig Harrison of the Blues and Royals) of 2475 metres is better documented. Harrison shot two Taliban machine gunners with consecutive shots. The deflection needed to pull off those shots required that the bullets were a fraction under 400 feet at the highest point in their journey.
And he did it in a crosswind!
 


Kernowlad

Member
I got inner kills on all three close targets; so that’s that issue sorted.
A shame my (lack of) mid range distance estimating ruined too many other shots!
 


AndyW

Active member
When practicing walk round with a range finder, estimate the distance and shoot then range find and shoot. You're brain will fill in the gaps after a while. You can do it anywhere when not shooting just take the RF when on a walk and do the same but I find shooting does it better.
When i try to overthink it that's generally when it goes wrong but there's always the thumb method if you have no clue because of terrain etc.
 


Kernowlad

Member
Thanks again! The course was very challenging (but fun) with a load of tree limbs to shoot between/under/around/over so it really was tricky estimating range. That rangefinder idea sounds good; are they big money?
Particular highlights were two long shots over a lake, one 60 yarder across a valley (!) and some very tight and awkward but fun shots. The course really was fantastic but certainly stretched us all on all aspects of our archery.
Great bunch of people too.
 


AndyW

Active member
They can get expensive but i would go for a second hand one from ebay. Golfers are forever swapping them out for the latest and greatest. I ended up with a Nikon pro staff 7 after swapping from a tour v3 slope. Both are great as they will work out the horizontal distance (or not) whichever you choose. I leave it on slope as i estimate on the horizontal.
There are better out there but any mid range main brand will be fine. Just stay away from the bottom end of the market, they are fine for golf but couldn't tell the difference between 5 and 15yrds for toffee. If you've got unlimited funds and fancy importing i think Bushnell do a bowhunter model which will tell you the distance to shoot the shot at whatever the angle.
 


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