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PLEASE HELP TO FUND ARCHERY INTERCHANGE

KidCurry

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I think that is a very valid point. And where do the poor teachers come from and how did they get through the net? Or is there no net?
Poor nets :)
Am I right in thinking that the further back in time we go, the less professional the teaching was?
no, I think that's not the case at all. I think teaching has always been one of the highest level professions, but a huge amount has been learnt in the last twenty years or so that has changed we how perceive the learning process and how we teach students entirely.
The video that 'Whitehart' mentioned above is a good example. Video is a widely used teaching tool and very powerful, but it will only help some students. Others will learn nothing from it. The hardest task is learning which student is which. This is because students learn in different ways. However, some students may learn exactly what is required just by doing. As a teacher you need to learn how to recognise which students are which.
As a teacher, I am assessing my students as much as I am teaching them. This is happening all through the semester. I spend more time preparing how to teach them than what I am teaching them. In an archery lesson you don't get much time to do this but you do get time to prepare. The very best coaches will know how to recognise these different learning styles, recognise them quickly, and have multiple lesson plans that will cover their students range of learning styles. The teacher will lean more about the student than the student knows about themselves.
So if your lesson plan is 3 minutes safety and straight into the shooting you may have ignored that some students that need/want much longer to feel safe and confident to stand on the line. As you begin to recognise each learning style you need to adapt your next lessons to take into account of those learning styles.
The next issue you have as a teacher is finding out which of your students understand what you are asking of them. It is probably the most difficult part of teaching and needs a level of skill to get the required feedback. You can show them a video but how do you know 1. That they have understood what they are looking at.
Finally, when you start a lesson the student needs to understand what it is they will be learning and what the learning outcomes may be. These will be different for each student and it is important that students know there will be different outcomes. So at the end of week 6 you may say to your students that '...at the end of this lesson some students will be able to explain and demonstrate the whole shot process, most will be able to explain and demonstrate 4 parts of the shot process, and all will be able to explain and demonstrate 2 parts of the shot process'.
 
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geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Kid Curry, I agree with all the ideas you have put forward regarding good teaching.
However, I disagree about the high standards as of "always".
Many children in the 50's were ignored because they did not learn as quickly as the average or higher levels in the class.
If you made a mistake you had to do corrections 3 times each ; as a lesson to avoid being careless next time.
 

KidCurry

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Kid Curry, I agree with all the ideas you have put forward regarding good teaching.
However, I disagree about the high standards as of "always".
Many children in the 50's were ignored because they did not learn as quickly as the average or higher levels in the class.
If you made a mistake you had to do corrections 3 times each ; as a lesson to avoid being careless next time.
Oh.. possibly, my experience only goes back to the 70s, I can't comment further back :) May be it was that 50s teachers did not understand the learning process. You could argue the same about any profession I guess.
 
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English Bowman

Well-known member
The only coach I will listen to is one that can shoot better scores than me.
This is a mistake, and one that many people make.
There is a big difference between being able to do something and being able to teach it. An archer can be good without understanding what they are doing. A coach can have a great understanding of the correct technique and brilliant observational skills but not be able to physically do it.
Also those who have spent their time improving their coaching skills aren't getting the practice they need to shoot well, and vice virsa.
In my opinion don't look at how well a coach shoots, that means nothing, look at how well their students shoot, that's what matters.
I can outshoot every coach that I've ever had, it doesn't make me a better coach than them.
 

Bandit

Active member
This is a mistake, and one that many people make.
There is a big difference between being able to do something and being able to teach it. An archer can be good without understanding what they are doing. A coach can have a great understanding of the correct technique and brilliant observational skills but not be able to physically do it.
Also those who have spent their time improving their coaching skills aren't getting the practice they need to shoot well, and vice virsa.
In my opinion don't look at how well a coach shoots, that means nothing, look at how well their students shoot, that's what matters.
I can outshoot every coach that I've ever had, it doesn't make me a better coach than them.
I see your point, and to a point I agree, however from bitter experience this idea never worked out well for me. I rather pay a professional coach with a good track record for shooting ( I would if i could) Clearly as a beginner near on every coach can shoot better than the student though. As people progress requirements in coaching change. Mindset and personalty plays a huge game too. I feel respect has to be earned. A level 1 or 2 archery GB coaching course does not cut it for me, especially for compound archery. Coaching is very recurve orientated.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Oh.. possibly, my experience only goes back to the 70s, I can't comment further back :) May be it was that 50s teachers did not understand the learning process. You could argue the same about any profession I guess.
I believe, from listening to others, that after the war, officers were brought into schools as they were probably capable of maintaining discipline. How much expertise they had was not mentioned.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I did a zoom in on the far hedges and trees. I saw seven people facing the place where the camera must have been as they seem to be looking straight at me. They were well hidden but it's the sort of place that looks as if people would hide in the hedges around it; so it was natural to take a closer look. One of them was eating an apple and another one seemed to have an apple on his head. Now that's just plain not normal.
It would have been OK if he was standing in front of one of the trees; but he wasn't. He ( I guess it was a bloke) was between two trees with his hands over his eyes. How he expected to see anything beats me. I suppose it's fair to say that I plain don't understand bird watchers.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I see your point, and to a point I agree, however from bitter experience this idea never worked out well for me. I rather pay a professional coach with a good track record for shooting ( I would if i could) Clearly as a beginner near on every coach can shoot better than the student though. As people progress requirements in coaching change. Mindset and personalty plays a huge game too. I feel respect has to be earned. A level 1 or 2 archery GB coaching course does not cut it for me, especially for compound archery. Coaching is very recurve orientated.
I think that you're right about mindset and personality. You need to find a coach who you can work with and works for you. The man who I consider my coach was a GNAS county coach, but the man who taught me was just a coach (modern level 2 equivalent) he didn't think that it was worth while going for a higher level. Both men shot and coached all styles of western archery, compound, recurve barebow and longbow. Whilst I was at the beginner to intermediate stage I didn't know how good a shot they were, but trusted them and the results followed.

I can agree that the focus is on recurve, but I was lucky enough to find a coach who coached me in longbow, and since becoming a coach I've made the effort to understand compound as well as recurve, barebow and longbow.

I am a L1 AGB coach, I was Coach level but let that qualification lapse, and can't be bothered to jump through the hoops to get higher.

The problem in my opinion is not that there aren't the coaches out there who know their stuff, it's that there are too many out there who don't. The difficulty for beginners is knowing one from the other, and shooting ability isn't a good way to tell. (As I said look at the standard of the pupils not the teacher.)
 

Bandit

Active member
I think that you're right about mindset and personality. You need to find a coach who you can work with and works for you. The man who I consider my coach was a GNAS county coach, but the man who taught me was just a coach (modern level 2 equivalent) he didn't think that it was worth while going for a higher level. Both men shot and coached all styles of western archery, compound, recurve barebow and longbow. Whilst I was at the beginner to intermediate stage I didn't know how good a shot they were, but trusted them and the results followed.

I can agree that the focus is on recurve, but I was lucky enough to find a coach who coached me in longbow, and since becoming a coach I've made the effort to understand compound as well as recurve, barebow and longbow.

I am a L1 AGB coach, I was Coach level but let that qualification lapse, and can't be bothered to jump through the hoops to get higher.

The problem in my opinion is not that there aren't the coaches out there who know their stuff, it's that there are too many out there who don't. The difficulty for beginners is knowing one from the other, and shooting ability isn't a good way to tell. (As I said look at the standard of the pupils not the teacher.)
This pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole coaching thing.

Like any voluntary run sport It can attract people who just want to feel important or needed. These people make terrible coaches.
I had a GNAS county coach that just babbled on about diet and Nutrition and having a "vision", on a technical level he was useless.

I hit a wall progress wise back in 2012 where I guess I peaked shooting Compound so took a long break and just shot for fun with other bow styles. I simply had no idea how to get those extra 20 to 30 points on a Fita or York to get GMB. Where would anyone find a coach to help with that? The only option I have is YouTube as my coach these days ;) and bloody minded trial and error.
 
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KidCurry

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So what do people look for when looking for a coach? And if you take on a coach, how much time practicing in your own time would you feel is reasonable? Would an online rating system be useful?
 
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geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
It was a genuine suggestion. I would have no problem with it either.
As for looking for a coach; I would go for someone I have heard of and possibly had recommended.
 

Bandit

Active member
So what do people look for when looking for a coach? And if you take on a coach, how much time practicing in your own time would you feel is reasonable? Would an online rating system be useful?
For me, an archer that has evidence they can shoot well. The scores on the doors is the only measurement I'm interested in. Granted not all archers can pass on their knowledge useful to others.

Liam Grimwood used to offer coaching at one time but it looks like he gave up the sport.
not sure how a rating system would work and would be open to abuse.

Practicing is everything. The squad shoots 200-300 a day not always at targets either. This can be done at home.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
For me, an archer that has evidence they can shoot well. The scores on the doors is the only measurement I'm interested in.
I know I've said this before, but you need to look at the results of the archers that have been coached by the coach you're looking at, not how well he or she can shoot. The best coaches I have known are not the best shooters I've known. The people who are putting in the top scores are devoting their time to improving their shooting, the best coaches are putting their time into developing their coaching skills, you can't do both. Now it is possible that a good coach is a former good archer, but to get to the top level in coaching you need to put your shooting to one side.
 

Bandit

Active member
I know I've said this before, but you need to look at the results of the archers that have been coached by the coach you're looking at, not how well he or she can shoot. The best coaches I have known are not the best shooters I've known. The people who are putting in the top scores are devoting their time to improving their shooting, the best coaches are putting their time into developing their coaching skills, you can't do both. Now it is possible that a good coach is a former good archer, but to get to the top level in coaching you need to put your shooting to one side.
Fair point (y)I have no idea where to find a coach though so it's kind of meaningless at the moment. I'll see how I get on next season and post covid :)

I'm rather enjoying shooting longbow at the moment too.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Now if you're anywhere near Portsmouth I can help you with longbow coaching, I'm not a great coach, but not too bad. Compound, it sounds like you're already beyond me. In my mind one of the things about a good coach is that they know their limits.
 

KidCurry

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I know I've said this before, but you need to look at the results of the archers that have been coached by the coach you're looking at...
I think this is one of the best, if not the best indicators if you know what the coaching levels are.
... I would go for someone I have heard of and possibly had recommended.
The next best :)
If I were to dedicate time to being coached I would also want to spend some time with the coach and talking to the coach before committing to being coached.
...I have no idea where to find a coach
You should be able to get that information from your county archery association. In Kent we have the Invicta Coaching Group, but I have never approached them.
 
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