'Who is at fault then?'

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Robin the Hood

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Simple Question....:cheerful:.....A member of an archery Club has facilities 24/7 (Having shot for years. Call them 'Archer A'.) They go down one day (not a Club Day) and decide to shoot a National Round.
Having started and part way into the round, another archer turns up, (New member having done the beginners course weeks previously. Call them 'Archer B'.) So while 'archer B' gets their equipment ready 'archer A' carries on with the next 1/2 doz, by which time 'archer B' is then ready. So while 'archer A' is collecting the arrows 'archer B' puts their target up at 30 yds about 15 yds away from 'archer A'.
Both archers approach the line, and 'archer A' shoots 3 arrows and comes off the line, goes to make an adjustment with the bow, finally goes to return to the line to shoot the other 3 arrows only to find that 'archer B' has already gone for their arrows having shot all 6 at once.

Who would you say was 'Out of Order' and 'Why'... :scratchch

Paul...
:mind-blow
 

Little Miss Purple

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lack of communication... but I would say that archer 'B' was within their rights to collect if archer 'A' wasn't shooting! That's what would happen at our club... its kinda common courtesy.. if you're not on the line by the time other have maybe 3 arrows left, then you wait till the next end. :beer:
 
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worthipa

Supporter
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Why do you say anyone's "at fault"?

Archer "A" can wait a few minutes, shoot his other 3 and collect ....
 

Furface

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There's no problem.
Now why do I get the feeling that this isn't exactly hypothetical?
 

sp220

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Archer B is at fault.

No wistle was blown to cross the shooting line, and this BASIC safety precaution wasn't followed.

If it happened at an archery competition everyone would be ape**** about it.

It happens in practice - I point it out - and no doubt people will post replies saying I am being ridiculous and the safety rules are unneseccary with so few archers in a club environment. At my home club - the safety rules are always followed.

As they should be if you actually expect your GNAS insurance to mean anything at all.
 

Little Miss Purple

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Archer B is at fault.

No wistle was blown to cross the shooting line, and this BASIC safety precaution wasn't followed.

If it happened at an archery competition everyone would be ape**** about it.

It happens in practice - I point it out - and no doubt people will post replies saying I am being ridiculous and the safety rules are unneseccary with so few archers in a club environment. At my home club - the safety rules are always followed.

As they should be if you actually expect your GNAS insurance to mean anything at all.

I think it depends on the sytem ran by the club... we do not always use a whistle... but the signal to collect is when the line is clear!
 

worthipa

Supporter
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No wistle was blown to cross the shooting line, and this BASIC safety precaution wasn't followed.
Er who would be blowing the whistle then? I assumed from the original post that there were only the two of them there "not a club day", "another archer turned up" etc ....
 

hooktonboy

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Perhaps they should have tried speaking to each other.....

Archer A as an experienced archer could have taken the initiative and explained how they think things should be happening.

Maybe somone should have told Archer B during their beginners course.......


Do I know any of these people, Paul - in case I need to change my answer?:raspberry
 

Hidden Hippo

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It doesn't have to be an actual whistle, merely an indication as to whether it is safe to advance. This is important irrespective of the number of archers, be it 2 or 200 there should always be a signal that it is safe to advance. Archer B did not hear any signal of this kind, although it could be that he misinterpreted archer A stepping back to adjust something as he had finshed shooting making it an honest mistake, but even then there should have been a safety procedure running at the time.
 

Little Miss Purple

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Perhaps they should have tried speaking to each other.....

Archer A as an experienced archer could have taken the initiative and explained how they think things should be happening.

Maybe somone should have told Archer B during their beginners course.......


Do I know any of these people, Paul - in case I need to change my answer?:raspberry

lol... I seem to think this story is familiar!!

but archer A should also know better.. but as I said before, it depends how the club usually works!
 

worthipa

Supporter
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Perhaps they should have tried speaking to each other.....
Always a good plan.

Archer A as an experienced archer could have taken the initiative and explained how they think things should be happening.
Who's the "they", there were only the two of them. What was "A" going to say "Now you just wait there mate whilst I fiddle about with my bow, I'm not sure how long I'm going to be but you can't collect until I get back"?

Maybe somone should have told Archer B during their beginners course.......
Told them what exactly?
 

bimble

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Well, it also depends on what "steps off the line" means when Archer A went to adjust something. If I had been Archer B and I had seen Archer A off the line "fixing" something I'd certainly go fetch my arrows.

By adjusting something on the bow I'm guessing that Archer A has had to go to their bag for tools. They're not on the line. They've left. They may of had the intention to come back before the end was finished but it sounds like they took too long.

If the shooting line is clear then it's safe to collect. If there's someone on the field (in front of the shooting line) you can-not go up to shoot.

If Archer A has been kicking up a fuss I would say that THEY are the one at fault by leaving the shooting line. If it had been at a competition and they hadn't returned before everyone else had finished shooting they'd just have to miss out on those last three arrows.
 

bimble

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Even so, I don't remember anything in there that covers making sure that even if the other person is off the line that he (or she) has finsihed shooting!!
 

sp220

Active member
At no point did archer B ever recieve any signal, be it audible, verbal, visible or otherwise that it was safe to cross the shooting line.

This is BASIC safety that beginners are taught from moment 1 of archery, and even on a none club night, regardless of how many archers are shooting, there should always be basic safety implements.

This is something we teach raw beginners people.
 

worthipa

Supporter
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At no point did archer B ever recieve any signal, be it audible, verbal, visible or otherwise that it was safe to cross the shooting line.

This is BASIC safety that beginners are taught from moment 1 of archery, and even on a none club night, regardless of how many archers are shooting, there should always be basic safety implements.

This is something we teach raw beginners people.
Presumably, in the absence of any signal, "B" made his own mind up it was safe ....
 

bimble

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That would depend on the what the club does to start/finish ends. If there had been no signal between the two, other than both were ready to start, at the begining of the end why should they have expected anything more than both archers off the line to signify the end of the end??

In my home club we very rarely use whistles/audio/visual signals. If everyone is finished we go collect and we don't start again until everyone is back.

In fact, the only times that I can think of when a end has been whistled to start it has been at competitions. Even at the BTC last year (or year before) the judge whistled the start with field party members still out!!
 
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