Wooden and Carbon arrows from the same bow

A16KSB

Member
Hi There.
I have been shooting 11/32 wooden arrows 55-60 lbs out of my Covert Hunter, ([email protected]) for about 2 years now, they shoot very well (roughly 177fps) and want to move to carbons or aluminum arrows.

I call my aiming style unconscious gapping, by that I mean I do not consciously use or see the point of the arrow.
What I want to achieve is for the carbon arrows to have the same speed as the wooden arrows so I can continue shooting the way I currently do
The woodies weigh around 522gn.
The carbons I initially used were 28" GT Traditional 300 spine 8.6 GPI, these were lighter and faster than the woods, (196 fps), so I thought I'd need to achieve the same mass as the wooden arrows to get the same cast

I went up to 400 spines 9.3 GPI, with 100gn inserts and 145 point weight, The total arrow weight is now 530gn. I have ordered some 125gn to bring the total weight down close to 510
The new carbons were tested at up to 20 yards and I was relatively happy with the results.

If I shoot the carbons and woodies during the same session the carbons would hit what I was aiming at and the woodies would group 10 o'clock from what I'm aiming at.
This puzzled me as I've shot the woods for many years and have not changed the bow set up for the carbons, could it be caused by the different picture my brain is having to deal with?
Can anyone tell me if what I'm trying to do is possible and what could be the reason for the 10 o'clock grouping for the woods?

I'd really appreciate any help or comments
 


Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
I'd suggest that it's probably because the two types of arrow have different FOCs. The carbons have most of their mass at the front, while for the woodies it is more evenly distributed. I'd guess that you'll notice greater discrepancy at longer distances. In addition you'll still need to allow for the difference in diameter of the two sets, so the tune will not be the same. I'd guess the carbons are narrower, so nocking point and centre shot will be different to the woods. It's amazing the efficiency that can be achieved with being spot on with a good tune.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think the question is why do the wooden arrows land in a different place from their usual one, aiming is the same and the bow has not been changed.
My guess is that the carbons have required an adjustment to your aim, in order to get them in the gold and when you use the woodies, you are making the same adjustment.
You might like to try this; shoot just the woodies till you get them back in the middle, then try the carbons after that. They might go 4 0'clock, as they are landing low right compared to woodies.
With your gapping being unconscious, you could be adjusting to get the carbons to work without realising; then using the same mark for woodies again without realising.
 


A16KSB

Member
Morning guys.
Thanks for getting back, there has been some good points raised.
I was going to question the FOC, reply as I couldn't understand why or how it would have an effect.
I'm now fairly certain the diameter of the shafts is making the difference with what I'm used to seeing, so I guess I'm sub-consciously changing my aim.

I have now bought some Easton X7 2214, which are 10.4 gpi and the same diameter (11/32), as the woodies, hopefully, this will present a similar image to the brain, and bring things back on track.

I will keep you updated
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think the shaft diameter could be causing the different results with the woodies. The other way of thinking about this, is why isn't it the carbons landing low right, when you are so used to aiming the woodies? Being so used the the woodies, why do the carbons dominate and the woodies take second place?
Did you, perhaps, shoot the carbons until you landed them in the middle? With that new aiming gap, did you suddenly change back to woodies and used the most recent gap?
 


A16KSB

Member
I think you are spot on.

The whole idea was to shoot either arrow from the same bow without making little or no changes to the bow setup, however I didn't relly think about tghe changes the brain would need.

I shot the carbons till they were going where I wanted, and I was happy, so I guess this means the changes to my sight picture happened gradually over the session, this must have been achieved on a sub-conscious level.

When I went back to the woodies, I guess the last sight picture imprinted on my brain was the one from the carbon arrow, so that is what it used.
This was based on the 5/16 diameter, so the 11/32 diameter picture was "wrong", but still produced a very good group at 10'oclock at 20 yards.

My next test, probably on Sunday is to shoot the woodies straight away, (with 3 years worth of sight picture), then shoot the 11/32 aluminium shafts.

If an archer uses the point of the arrow to gap and they get lighter arrows or a faster bow, this would change their gaps, so all they do is learn the new gapping system, is that correct?
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If an archer uses the point of the arrow to gap and they get lighter arrows or a faster bow, this would change their gaps, so all they do is learn the new gapping system, is that correct?
I think you are right.
The gap that you are talking about equates to the gap between the arrow and the sight aperture for an archer who uses a sight. The sight is on the gold and the arrow is usually below. The further you shoot the smaller the gap, as the arrow is raised to make the distance. If the sighted archer wound up their draw weight and the arrows landed high they would raise the sight to compensate; effectively lowering their arrow or increasing the gap. The sighted archer gets used to knowing how much to move their sight to bring the arrows to the gold when they land high or low during sighters, for example. The gap shooting barebow archer may learn to use a bigger/smaller gap for the same reason.
 


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