Yet another AGB Survey

bimble

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I mean, I found a report into someone shooting a knife into the back of their hand and needing stitches easier than how to take up archery on the NFAS page...
 

ArcheryFox

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I mean, in the last couple of years AGB have started the AGB 3D National Champs (it's next month at Pentref if anyone is interested) and there are considerably more 3D shoots under the auspices of AGB than there were only five years ago. There was an AGB 3D shoot only at the weekend. It certainly isn't against AGB's interests to point their members to non-target events, there are at least 23 field events in the calendar, and that doesn't even include my county field champs!

And sure AGB have a bit of a monopoly on beginners, but a quick look at the EFAA website shows absolutely nothing about how to start archery. How to become an instructor, how to set up a club, that's there... how to actually take up the sport, nada. A look at the NFAS page tells me I can only be a 'provisional member' until I'm signed off... but nothing about taking up the sport or how to be 'signed off'. The AGB website, literally on the home page one of the options is "Start Archery". Maybe if the other organisations made even a minimum of effort AGB wouldn't have the monopoly they do on beginners.
You are entirely correct, but the point I was trying to make was in relation to the comments that many people never manage to find the wider world of archery beyond the target club they start at, and which might provide something to hold their interest for longer.

Adding more competitions and a national championships is good and helps grow the scene somewhat, but is primarily fuel for those who already participate in field/3D. It is much less effective (IMO) at providing opportunities to give many AGB members a taste of something different that may grab their interest.

IME you have to go actively looking to learn about and participate in field/3D, and clout or flight, and there are often barriers to entry such as additional training/limited events/locations. This is not the case everywhere (e.g. Overton) but is for the majority of target clubs using sports fields. I would love to see work done to reduce these barriers and make it much easier for new members to learn about and be able to try out these other forms. I do my best to evangelise about field, but I'm not sure what a larger scale solution would be - but then, that's what I'd like to see AGB working on.

Whilst field is doing reasonably well under AGB it does very much depend on where you are or how much you want to travel. My nearest AGB field club is a 100 mile/2hr trip. I would love something closer, but that is only likely to come if someone/some people have the time, money, and resources to set a new club up. Like many things in archery it comes down to the grassroots volunteers who have a particular passion.
I was trying to say that it would perhaps be nice if AGB could provide a bit more support to growing these other areas to become more available/mainstream. Many highly experienced and proficient target archers have never tried another form of archery.
Of course, that would then be at the expense of something else.

I would hope the AGB website was the best as the official NGB and the only one not run by volunteers, but I am surprised EFAA and NFAS have no easy information to help people get started on their websites. This is definitely something that should be altered. However, it's not a race to the bottom to find the least bad NGB.

At the end of the day I support AGB and think they do more good than harm, but I do think they could do more for the average member and to keep people engaged. Perhaps someone should email this thread in for them to read instead of debating which car dealership discounts or experience days would improve our membership 🙃.
 

dvd8n

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Whilst field is doing reasonably well under AGB it does very much depend on where you are or how much you want to travel. My nearest AGB field club is a 100 mile/2hr trip. I would love something closer, but that is only likely to come if someone/some people have the time, money, and resources to set a new club up. Like many things in archery it comes down to the grassroots volunteers who have a particular passion.
Is AGB field doing well? As I said before, the only AGB field club that I know of in Scotland just switched to SFAA. It's all very well saying grass roots volunteers need to do something, but what did AGB do to hang onto the club that used to host the Scottish Field Archery Championships every year? Anything?

Is there an alternative field club in Scotland? I can't think of one. I don't even know how to find out. Not from Scottish Archery. Their link for field archery goes to a website selling nootropics, testosterone boosters and dumbbells.
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
Is AGB field doing well? As I said before, the only AGB field club that I know of in Scotland just switched to SFAA. It's all very well saying grass roots volunteers need to do something, but what did AGB do to hang onto the club that used to host the Scottish Field Archery Championships every year? Anything?
That's what I was trying to say :)
It's doing reasonably well IF you are in one of the hotspots or prepared to travel a long way.
For you and I, not so much.

And providing new opportunities/growth (or even just supporting/preserving what's there as you say) falls to the grassroots volunteers (with passion, time, and money), but I don't think all of it should HAVE to.
I'd like to see more support from above to help and drive growth in other disciplines and make it easier to try/access them, especially where they aren't common/available at the moment.

P.S.
GBNIField website suggests:
Argyll Field Archers – Taynuilt
Auld Braidlie – Scottish Borders
Whether this is up to date (last I heard Auld Braidlie moved to be SFAA/NFAS) or either of these are remotely close to you might be another matter.
 

dvd8n

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That's what I was trying to say :)
It's doing reasonably well IF you are in one of the hotspots or prepared to travel a long way.
For you and I, not so much.

And providing new opportunities/growth (or even just supporting/preserving what's there as you say) falls to the grassroots volunteers (with passion, time, and money), but I don't think all of it should HAVE to.
I'd like to see more support from above to help and drive growth in other disciplines and make it easier to try/access them, especially where they aren't common/available at the moment.

P.S.
GBNIField website suggests:
Argyll Field Archers – Taynuilt
Auld Braidlie – Scottish Borders
Whether this is up to date (last I heard Auld Braidlie moved to be SFAA/NFAS) or either of these are remotely close to you might be another matter.
Unfortunately Argyll is the one that I am taking about. :confused:
 

KidCurry

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Does it? I'd guess the vast majority of people signing up for beginner courses (mostly AGB due to aforementioned near monopoly) ...
Yes, I think so. Most sports run as hobbies don't seem to have the cachet and draw that the big money professional sports have. Why would you spend years training to be the Tim Henman of the archery world and scrape by on sponsorship, if you are lucky, when you could train the same years and be the Tim Henman of the Tennis world and earn £millions from sponsorship?
It's odd, but I've shot compound for 30 years until changing to Barebow due to limitations at my new club. I've thought about it quite often but even now I can't really say why I stayed with it.
Perhaps it would help by understanding why people stay rather than why people leave the sport? Perhaps, as Bimble says, it may be the competition that holds me.
As a side, our club has gone from 20 to 70 members in the last four years. We only have 6 bosses so we must be doing something right :)
 
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ArcheryFox

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Why would you spend years training to be the Tim Henman of the archery world and scrape by on sponsorship, if you are lucky, when you could train the same years and be the Tim Henman of the Tennis world and earn £millions from sponsorship?
[...]
I've thought about it quite often but even now I can't really say why I stayed with it.
[...]
Perhaps it would help by understanding why people stay rather than why people leave the sport?
I understand where you're coming from, but how many people take up a sport/activity with the aim of becoming world champion/making millions as a sports star? A few, such as the Williams sisters, but I think the vast majority of new archers are here because it seems like a cool activity and something to do as a family or to relax.
For those that do reach the top I think most just get hooked after starting and then want to become the best they can be for the archery-world cred.

Certainly I started as a kid because I thought it was cool and my parents finally gave in after I didn't take to swimming or hockey.
I've certainly stuck with it partly through doing competitions and chasing classifications. I came close to stopping when this got a bit much and was saved by discovering field.
Perhaps the main reason I have stuck through good times and bad is social though. Many of my close friends have come through various archery clubs and it provides me an opportunity to get out. I also enjoy being on committees and developing archery, despite my best protestations.
Finally I also find it relaxing, focussing on shooting and being able to put other things out of my head.

I think you are exactly right that we need to look at why people stay as well as why they leave.
However, I think the main driver for a lot of club members is the social aspect.
Our club used to operate separate ranges for each member and had terrible churn. This year I changed things so that people shoot together (multiple bosses per range) and we're trying to support our new members with designated coaching times and awards schemes, rather than pushing them into the deep end to sink or swim post-beginners' course. So far things are looking better...
 

wully

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Is AGB field doing well? As I said before, the only AGB field club that I know of in Scotland just switched to SFAA. It's but what did AGB do to hang onto the club that used to host the Scottish Field Archery Championships every year? Anything?
Nothing at all as far as I’m aware.. I thought that AGB and SA might have asked us why we were leaving but nothing heard except from a few individuals asking if we were hosting the Scottish Field Championships.
We left because AGB and SA offered us very poor value for the membership cost.
Since joining the SFAA our membership has steadily increased..
 

inthemiddle

Active member
There are two field clubs in my area. The nearest field club to me is really small. They all shoot bare bow as gap shooters. No compounds allowed. You just turn up when you like so never really see anyone that much. The other club again no compound is a good hours drive if traffic is kind. I don't see how Field archery, at least where I live, as a solution to anything :oops:
 

wully

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There are two field clubs in my area. The nearest field club to me is really small. They all shoot bare bow as gap shooters. No compounds allowed. You just turn up when you like so never really see anyone that much. The other club again no compound is a good hours drive if traffic is kind. I don't see how Field archery, at least where I live, as a solution to anything :oops:
Field archery isn’t a solution, it’s a discipline 🤣
FYI there has been no indoor shooting in this area for over two years and our shooting ground is open 24/7 with no scheduled shooting times - we shoot when the weather is good.
We have no members shooting compound, not banned but none of us are interested.
 
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dvd8n

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I wasn't really suggesting that field archery was a solution to member churn; I was more positing that the Olympic style target archery may not be what a lot of archers are looking for when they take up archery.

I was further pointing out that other, more 'exciting' forms of archery do exist which may engage the imagination of archers, but AGB seems to do little to further them, to the extent that (AFAIK) they show no interest in the defection of the last field archery club in Scotland and don't even keep their websites up to date.
 

iandall

New member
Membership churn for as long as I have been in archery has been horrendous, that is acknowledged as a problem but that is as far as it goes decimating membership growth each year and no discount scheme is going to fix that.

Perhaps the only question we need to understand is why so many people are drawn to archery and what it is that turns them off after a very short time. Afterall most who join a club commit and end up spending £350-500 on equipment. Why is the reality not matching up with expectations?
I'm not in GB, so know little about the specifics of how archery is organized in GB, but the general issues seem pretty universal. In Australia, I understand, the "churn" is not really worse than other sports. Most other sports are youth based and suffer massive attrition as kids hit puberty. Archery on the other hand is a "lifetime" sport. Many people take it up as an adult, and some (few) people take it up in their youth and are still doing it in there old age. To those who have been shooting 30 years, it seems there must be something wrong if people leave after one or two years, but I think that is the reality for most sports. Most people just want to "give it a go".

Of course, increased retention would be great, and especially if there are things pushing people away that should be addressed, but I think high attrition is just how it is with these kinds of activities.
 

dvd8n

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The only 'Pope & Young' that I could think of is bowhunting in the US, and the only non-bowhunting example using that name seemed to be bosses put out at random distances with random target faces on (ie - a club fun shoot), so there's probably a pretty good reason why you've not heard of it before.
Oh, just as a matter of trivia, a Pope Young round has six bosses set out on an arc, and six shooting pegs set out on another arc. One archer stands on each peg and shoots one arrow at each boss against the clock. They all then move by one peg. So you end up shooting 36 unknown distances against the clock.

I just brought it up as something completely different that could be done for variety.
 

dvd8n

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I'm not in GB, so know little about the specifics of how archery is organized in GB, but the general issues seem pretty universal. In Australia, I understand, the "churn" is not really worse than other sports. Most other sports are youth based and suffer massive attrition as kids hit puberty. Archery on the other hand is a "lifetime" sport. Many people take it up as an adult, and some (few) people take it up in their youth and are still doing it in there old age. To those who have been shooting 30 years, it seems there must be something wrong if people leave after one or two years, but I think that is the reality for most sports. Most people just want to "give it a go".

Of course, increased retention would be great, and especially if there are things pushing people away that should be addressed, but I think high attrition is just how it is with these kinds of activities.
I kind of agree and disagree.

I agree that there is inevitably going to be a big initial drop off of people just wanting to give it a go or people deciding it's not for them.

On the other hand I feel that AGB seem to focus on bringing in new members (big weekends, project Rimaya etc) rather than keeping the ones that they have. I'd think that a start would be phoning lapsed members and asking why.
 

Whitehart

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On the other hand I feel that AGB seem to focus on bringing in new members (big weekends, project Rimaya etc) rather than keeping the ones that they have. I'd think that a start would be phoning lapsed members and asking why.
I know of a number of local clubs that do this annually with lapsed members via email and the response rate is below 1% - with the answer no longer interested.

There are many people who are non active members of clubs who are never seen yet in the past have paid their subs each year, this year I would expect they are re evaluating expenditure and choosing not to renew. That could have been inflating membership numbers over the years.
 

Rabid Hamster

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There are many people who are non active members of clubs who are never seen yet in the past have paid their subs each year, this year I would expect they are re evaluating expenditure and choosing not to renew. That could have been inflating membership numbers over the years.
we've seen a lot of this. Members still paying their memberships but we never see them. When we paid their area fees for them 1st year of COVID and DIDNT take club fees, they still paid AGB. Now as we take club fees for the first time in 2 years we've seen the drop-off hit. Left the club very much in the lurch as we spent to keep the club running for the active shooters. Now as we return to a more normal outdoor season without covid levels scaring people ... the club has shrunk.
 
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