Advice please!!!!

[bearded bowyer]

Hi everyone.
I'm having no end of problems using Ipe as a bow lamination.
I don't really use it, but after a recent bespoke bow request, I have some left over so thought I would use it.

Hickory back/ hickory core / Ipe bow: Fine

Ipe back/ oroko/ ipe : blew the belly lamination, all the glue residue is on the oroko, hardly any on the Ipe....I assume this means it didn't seep into the Ipe enough. Not had this problem with other woods....

Ipe back/ hickory/ ipe: The back cracked! I am beginning to wonder If Ipe belly is overpowering the Ipe on the back.....

Getting very demoralised :-( all that work for both bows to blow on the tiller......

Do any of you use ipe? Maybe its just now worth the hastle.

Cheers
Matt

 

[WillS]

Never used it, but I think there are a lot of variables that need to be accounted for. Ipe is REALLY dense as you know, it's useless as a backing material (as you know now!) and it will overpower a huge variety of woods. It has to be used carefully. I know that most guys building warbows who do use it have it only in the core, and only 1/8" thick if that. You also have to take into account the glue you're using - is it out of date? Makes a big difference. Is it too cold? In this weather unless you're gluing up somewhere centrally heated pretty much anywhere is too cold for a glue like Cascamite or Resintite. Did you prep the Ipe properly?

 

[BillM]

Ipe is REALLY dense as you know?

My longbow is Ipe, Purpleheart and Bamboo, is very good looking and shoots extremely well. It is fast. I've had it for 3 1/2 years and although I only shoot it periodically it is still in good condition. I know the bowyer spends a lot of time selecting the wood to make the belly but I also know that he has had some failures.

I also put a conservatory on to my house and was given some Ipe flooring which came from an old scout hall and some Oroco from a school gym. I was told that Ipe was 'poor man's teak' as it was extremely dense and hard wearing. I've just looked at it and can't find any of the boards that have straight grain, which is why it looks good as flooring. I've considered making a longbow but that is for the future so will make do with what I have - recurve, longbow and horsebow.

BillM

 

[WillS]

My longbow is Ipe, Purpleheart and Bamboo, is very good looking and shoots extremely well. It is fast. I've had it for 3 1/2 years and although I only shoot it periodically it is still in good condition. I know the bowyer spends a lot of time selecting the wood to make the belly but I also know that he has had some failures.

I also put a conservatory on to my house and was given some Ipe flooring which came from an old scout hall and some Oroco from a school gym. I was told that Ipe was 'poor man's teak' as it was extremely dense and hard wearing. I've just looked at it and can't find any of the boards that have straight grain, which is why it looks good as flooring. I've considered making a longbow but that is for the future so will make do with what I have - recurve, longbow and horsebow.

BillM

I will point out straight away that laminations aren't my thing - I have only ever made self-bows so far, as I prefer the challenge and look of a stave bow! I'm sure I'll give it a go at some point though.


My understanding however is that any wood is fine, provided you combine it with woods that complement it. Ipe and Purpleheart is a very common combination so it would seem that Purpleheart is dense enough to not be overpowered by the Ipe. Bamboo is also incredibly powerful so a bow made from all three will equalise everything out and perform really well. If you were to make a bow with an Ipe belly and a yew sapwood back you'd probably find it failed catastrophically.


There is also a growing trend it seems with putting unnecessary laminations in the core of bows although I'm not sure about this and somebody with more experience would be better commenting on that. I've seen Bickerstaffe bows with miniscule laminations of Ipe and Purpleheart sandwiched together inbetween lemonwood and hickory. Lemonwood and Hickory certainly don't need both cores, as even just on their own they make good bows. I think it's more about appearance and getting a nice rainbow effect from the various wood colours that leads to having laminations like that, rather than practicality.



An Ipe board without perfect grain should be ok for a belly lamination. Provided your backing and core are almost flawless and the glue lines are solid and well done I can't see there being a problem.

 

[bearded bowyer]

Cheers for the replys chaps.
I think the most likely candidate is the cold temperature during glue up. It was only 4 degrees at the time in my work shop. All winter staves will now be glued up and brought indoors, where the wife cant see them ;-)
I run everything through my planer thicknesser, then lightly sand and wipe down acetone if the timber is particularly oily.
I agree with you Wills there is lots of multi-core laminates out there. They are purely for the aesthetics. Ive not noticed any increase in performance in bows with 4 laminations. But there is a big difference between 2 and 3. It makes them much quicker and punchier to shoot. They also tend to take less set.
One HUGE advantage to making laminate bows is you can use timber you would never be able to make a self bow with. And use a lot of timber end grain on.


The biggest problem I find is that, I cant find a list of which woods are good in compression/ tension etc. So it all comes down to experimenting with timber you can get locally.
In the Future I shall only use Ipe as a core wood.
Have you used it Wills? It monumentally tough, very hard to work with on the belly. I wouldn't recommend it.

Matt

 

[WillS]

No, I've never touched the stuff, only shot bows with it as a core wood. It's beautiful, but looks like it would be similar to solid iron to work... Sort of like ash but the end result is actually a decent bow unlike ash which takes 4 years to tiller using a JCB and dynamite only to chrysal and fold up like wet paper..

 

[bearded bowyer]

Hahaha
Havnt used ash in a long while, forgot how awful it can be!
It may actually be easier to use a rasp on steel than on Ipe.... ;-)

 

[BillM]

In my earlier post I said that I was given some reclaimed flooring of Ipe. I was in my workshop and looked for the 'samples' I had identified and the 'Ipe' is, in fact, Opepe. That would explain the big difference in grain as my longbow's Ipe is fine grain and straight whereas the Opepe is wavy. Sorry about that.

BillM