AGB Membership questions

[Newalpost]

Greetings....

My local club is contemplating getting affiliated to AGB. This has raised some questions with a few of us about what this implies to us in terms of cost and type of membership. I sent some questions to AGB over a week ago about membership of AGB and our Regional Society. They haven't bothered to reply - yet.

I'm wondering therefore if there is someone here who could perhaps answer those questions:-

Q1. Is it compulsory for our club to join our Regional Society? In my case Scottish Archery.

Q2. If the club does join AGB and Scottish Archery, is it compulsory for members to join both?

Q3. If the club joins both then I can join as a Club Member. Is this correct?

Q4. Some details on the old application form seem to imply that if the club or the member does not join the regional society, then the member has to join AGB as Direct Member. Is this correct?

Q5. The 2016/2017 membership form has in the compliance section a check box for ?I have joined a County and Region?. This seems to imply that this is compulsory in order to comply with the Terms and Conditions of AGB, but is in contradiction of the previous statement about it being optional as per my question #4 when looking at the old application form.

Personally I find the AGB website difficult to navigate to get to the info I need.

THxs
Colin

 

[bimble]

I think (there will be more knowledgeable people along soon - hopefully)

Q1 - yes

Q2 - yes

Q3 - yes

Q4 - outdated as they're changing their interpretation of the rules that mean Direct Members have to join region/county

Q5 - see my answer to Q4

I'm 95% that my answers are correct...

 

[Rik]

Strictly speaking, the club doesn't join anything. The members do the joining.

You join a club.
You join AGB either directly, or through the club (different fee structure).
If you join through the club, then you also pay a regional fee through the club, which goes to the region the club is "in" (there can be some flexibiity for geographically edgy clubs).
If you join direct then AGB expects you to join a region directly as well. That's their current interpretation of the Laws, which has been questioned repeatedly, but stands at the moment. Politics.

Insert "and county" alongside region, if you are somewhere which has counties.

 

[Newalpost]

Thanks for the reply Bimble.

The answers I was expecting although not hoping for. At the moment some of us are not convinced of the benefits of joining AGB. None of use are really interested in competitions and we're so remote that visiting other AGB clubs is not that easy to do. Plus we don't think the level of regulations - although not a bad thing - that AGB imposes is appreciated by those pushing for membership.

The other down side is cost. Fee to AGB and fee to Regional Society. Yes, this provides insurance but this is not valid if we shoot at a non-AGB club, which some of us do and so we have separate insurance for that. Plus from the little I understand we can't invite members along from other non-AGB clubs to shoot - which we currently do.

We're pushing for a discussion on this issue and we'll see what develops.

Thxs

 

[Newalpost]

Strictly speaking, the club doesn't join anything. The members do the joining.

You join a club.
You join AGB either directly, or through the club (different fee structure).
If you join through the club, then you also pay a regional fee through the club, which goes to the region the club is "in" (there can be some flexibiity for geographically edgy clubs).
If you join direct then AGB expects you to join a region directly as well. That's their current interpretation of the Laws, which has been questioned repeatedly, but stands at the moment. Politics.

Insert "and county" alongside region, if you are somewhere which has counties.

Rik, thanks for your reply.

I guess this is another level of confusion for me. You say the club doesn't join but surely it has to become affiliated or registered with AGB and once this is done all members have to join AGB and their Region/County.

Or put another way - our current club has nothing to do with AGB so members cannot join AGB as a Club Member but would have to go Direct. And in consequence once a member joins AGB then his insurance only covers him on AGB ranges and so would not be of any benefit at our club.

 

[Rik]

Rik, thanks for your reply.

I guess this is another level of confusion for me. You say the club doesn't join but surely it has to become affiliated or registered with AGB and once this is done all members have to join AGB and their Region/County.

Or put another way - our current club has nothing to do with AGB so members cannot join AGB as a Club Member but would have to go Direct. And in consequence once a member joins AGB then his insurance only covers him on AGB ranges and so would not be of any benefit at our club.

It's the other way round, so far as I know. A club is only deemed affiliated to AGB if a certain number of members join AGB through it. So you send off a form of members wanting to join AGB through the club and that brings the club into AGB. Members joining direct will not bring a club into AGB, that's true.

I've never heard of any restriction on where people shoot, so long as it conforms to the rules. It doesn't have to be an "AGB range" (no such thing), as that would exclude places like, for example Lords... The rules do say things about who you can shoot with, but not really where.

 

[dvd8n]

Have you thought about other associations?

You are in Scotland so you could be thinking about:

STaFFA - Scottish Target and Field Archery Association
NFF - Northern Field Federation
SFAA - Scottish Field Archery Association

They are all active, all more Scotland centric, cheaper and less bureaucratic.

Are you a target or field club?

 

[ben tarrow]

I've never heard of any restriction on where people shoot, so long as it conforms to the rules. It doesn't have to be an "AGB range" (no such thing), as that would exclude places like, for example Lords... The rules do say things about who you can shoot with, but not really where.

I'd advocate caution with this one.
AGB are currrently going through the processes to insist that all AGB clubs register their shooting facilities with the subtle implication that shooting on NON registered shooting grounds will not be covered by insurance.
Clearly this causes problems for event organisers who may choose to use venues on a one off basis, Lords being a good example.

Its already been established that AGB insurance will NOT cover archers shooting in their own back gardens etc

Personally, I feel another of those AGB insurance gray areas that will lead to another plethora of myths and mythinformation that AGB enjoys the benefit of so often.

 

[Newalpost]

Only clubs operating within the Archery GB laws and rules of shooting are insured, e.g. club with
Archery GB members shooting with non-members need separate insurance.

This is copied from the insurance document I found on AGB and its really old but is still implied as being current. It's not they actual policy because they imply they want money from you in order to see it. Similar wording is found in the compliance or disclosure sections of membership forms.

By 'where' I really meant only on ranges that comply with AGB regulations and not the physical location.

We are essentially Target Archers.

 

[mk1]

Clearly this causes problems for event organisers who may choose to use venues on a one off basis, Lords being a good example.

When a big event is organised in such a place as Lords or another hireable arena then the organisers will go through all the necessary H&S checks and edpending on the event organise suitable insurance - the archery at the Olympics wasn't covered by AGB Insurance

 

[ieuan_johns]

Thanks for the reply Bimble.

The answers I was expecting although not hoping for. At the moment some of us are not convinced of the benefits of joining AGB. None of use are really interested in competitions and we're so remote that visiting other AGB clubs is not that easy to do. Plus we don't think the level of regulations - although not a bad thing - that AGB imposes is appreciated by those pushing for membership.

The other down side is cost. Fee to AGB and fee to Regional Society. Yes, this provides insurance but this is not valid if we shoot at a non-AGB club, which some of us do and so we have separate insurance for that. Plus from the little I understand we can't invite members along from other non-AGB clubs to shoot - which we currently do.

We're pushing for a discussion on this issue and we'll see what develops.

Thxs

If what you say is true of the majority of members, AND you are covered by insurance via some other method then there really is no benefit to joining.

You could still invite non-AGB clubs to shoot with you, but those sessions would not be covered by AGB (or the insurance).

 

[Rik]

When a big event is organised in such a place as Lords or another hireable arena then the organisers will go through all the necessary H&S checks and edpending on the event organise suitable insurance - the archery at the Olympics wasn't covered by AGB Insurance

Yes but, things like a star event shot on a sports ground which doesn't host regular club shooting, would have to continue to be covered by AGB insurance. Most club grounds are not set up for bigger competitions, so competitions go to other grounds.

 

[dvd8n]

If what you say is true of the majority of members, AND you are covered by insurance via some other method then there really is no benefit to joining.

You could still invite non-AGB clubs to shoot with you, but those sessions would not be covered by AGB (or the insurance).

That's why I suggested other organisations; if some members have a yen for inter-club activities then this would allow it at a lower cost.

 

[dvd8n]

if some members have a yen for inter-club activities

And if they don't then what's their motivation for joining AGB?

 

[Newalpost]

And if they don't then what's their motivation for joining AGB?

This is really the key question - why is it thought necessary to join AGB? The guys who run our club do a great job and are good friends so we have to be careful in questioning their motivation for joining AGB, but the seeds for a discussion on this have been sown.

 

[dvd8n]

It seems to me that you can't make a decision as big as that without a vote at your AGM and that kind of implies a discussion beforehand. Just try to keep it civil and try to understand each others point of view, and try to keep personalities out of it.

You never know, they may have a valid coherent set of reasons and may persuade you that joining AGB is the best way forward.

But if you don't have the discussion then it will just lead to resentment.

 

[mkhari]

The insurance thing confuses the hell out of me.

I'm AGB and EFAA and I shoot in my garden but I have no real clue what covers me for what.

Anyway, I have just paid Sports Cover Direct ?25 for Archery insurance, so I hope I am covered for field/target/garden now